AFL Rd 2 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong

[Mav]

Remember, centre bounces are still the go even if there are quite a few centre ball-ups. Only rarely would the ball go up directly over the centre line (and that also applies to a degree to ball-ups). Requiring a ruckman to stay on his own side of the line would make no sense if the ball drops in his opponent’s side of the larger centre circle.

The centre line really tells a ruckman that he has to stay on his half of the centre circle until the ball leaves the umpire’s hands.

The rules relating to ruck contests are a bit mysterious. But it appears that a guiding principle is that both ruckmen have to have a chance to contest the bounce or ball-up. For instance, you’d think it would be fair game to hold the opposing ruck at bay with a stiff arm to the chest but that’s a red flag. At the centre bounce, one ruckman can’t run past the ball drop to body out the opposing ruck, unlike a forward or defender in a marking contest. That would be regarded as blocking. And yet a ruckman can jump with a knee into his opponent’s chest and that’s kosher, even though that puts the opponent out of the contest. When a whistle goes in a rucking duel, I hold my breath as I usually have no idea which way it will go.

[DJC]

I neglected to mention Lewis Young.  Although soundly beaten by Cameron earlier in the game, Lewis held his nerve at the end and went for the mark against Cameron, coming out on top.

[Baggers]

I neglected to mention Lewis Young.  Although soundly beaten by Cameron earlier in the game, Lewis held his nerve at the end and went for the mark against Cameron, coming out on top.

Great education for Lewis, unlikely to find himself up against a better opponent. Credit given where due... Cameron was brilliant, and considering he was in considerable discomfort late in the game, he still impacted the contest significantly.

[Gointocarlton]

I neglected to mention Lewis Young.  Although soundly beaten by Cameron earlier in the game, Lewis held his nerve at the end and went for the mark against Cameron, coming out on top.

When he kicked his 3 goals he kicked in the last qtr, he wasn't opposed to Young.

[DJC]

When he kicked his 3 goals he kicked in the last qtr, he wasn't opposed to Young.

That's right.  Young was moved off him earlier in the game but went back to him late in the last quarter.

[Mav]

It seems to me that the Blues (perhaps more specifically Weitering) are keen to expose Young to the opposition’s best tall forward but if he starts wilting he switches to a more manageable opponent. That was particularly so against the Tigers. He started on Lynch but was as nervous as a junior player who had been given a game in the seniors. He played with no confidence and was completely reactive. Lynch was well on top. He quickly switched to Riewoldt and he soon acted like a veteran star defender against a junior forward. When he switched back to Lynch, he continued to play with confidence and did well.

If this is how Young’s being handled (and I might be imagining it) then bravo. The last thing we need is to see him destroyed by an AFL star. Weiters is good enough and confident enough to take all comers and is selfless enough to give his team mates a chop out when required.

[tonyo]

It seems to me that the Blues (perhaps more specifically Weitering) are keen to expose Young to the opposition’s best tall forward but if he starts wilting he switches to a more manageable opponent. That was particularly so against the Tigers. He started on Lynch but was as nervous as a junior player who had been given a game in the seniors. He played with no confidence and was completely reactive. Lynch was well on top. He quickly switched to Riewoldt and he soon acted like a veteran star defender against a junior forward. When he switched back to Lynch, he continued to play with confidence and did well.

If this is how Young’s being handled (and I might be imagining it) then bravo. The last thing we need is to see him destroyed by an AFL star. Weiters is good enough and confident enough to take all comers and is selfless enough to give his team mates a chop out when required.

Every backman has a tough night (even SOS had 10+ kicked on him a couple of times), it's all part of the learning experience.  Cameron is a very different beast from most of the forward line gorillas - he is extremely mobile, and can drill them from 60, a tall defender's nightmare.  The secret to making his life hard is to limit easy supply from the midfield, and to jam the leading lanes in the forward line. 

We need to do a lot more work on having the midfielders fill holes during defensive set plays - have a look at the set play where Henry took a chest mark on the lead 30m out from goal - that should just not happen.  

[kruddler]

Remember, centre bounces are still the go even if there are quite a few centre ball-ups. Only rarely would the ball go up directly over the centre line (and that also applies to a degree to ball-ups). Requiring a ruckman to stay on his own side of the line would make no sense if the ball drops in his opponent’s side of the larger centre circle.

The centre line really tells a ruckman that he has to stay on his half of the centre circle until the ball leaves the umpire’s hands.

The rules relating to ruck contests are a bit mysterious. But it appears that a guiding principle is that both ruckmen have to have a chance to contest the bounce or ball-up. For instance, you’d think it would be fair game to hold the opposing ruck at bay with a stiff arm to the chest but that’s a red flag. At the centre bounce, one ruckman can’t run past the ball drop to body out the opposing ruck, unlike a forward or defender in a marking contest. That would be regarded as blocking. And yet a ruckman can jump with a knee into his opponent’s chest and that’s kosher, even though that puts the opponent out of the contest. When a whistle goes in a rucking duel, I hold my breath as I usually have no idea which way it will go.

Iirc, me and mbb are remembering the same contest.

Ball was bounced, Geelong ruckman right over the centre line, then stopped and looked up to find the ball which had been bounced directly up.

Essentially, he had no eyes for the ball until he was in a position to shepherd his opponent from the ball.

The whole push from the afl and introducing the circle line is to keep the rucks separate so they can contest the ball, what he did was exactly what that line/rule was introduced to stop.

So as you said, a ruck can't run past the drop of the ball to body out an opponent, but that is exactly what happened.

[BluePhantom]

Finally watched the replay and my, Harry the Heart breaker became Harry the Heart saver in those last 5mins.
He was absolutely awesome, Jezza Cameron like, just without the goals. Well done Harry.

[kruddler]

Jack’s role was tall forward, not ruck.  Compare him with Charlie and Harry, not Pitto and Tom.

I wouldn’t be dropping him.  Our forward line worked better when he was playing.

Silvagni also missed the last quarter...so his stats would have been better.
I just feel watching him that he's a bit out of sorts.
His touch seems a bit off and he's missing marks he normally takes.
I don't know whether he was injured, if he was subbed off without injury that's probably a bit of an indicator he's on the fringe.
Pittonet needs game time more than anything else at the moment.

I have TOG there and he actually spent more time on the ground than Pittonet.

The reason i stacked him up against TDK + Pittonet is because everybody is raving about how well our 2 rucks did, and (some) people are calling for Jack to be dropped off the back of that effort.

Sure, stats aren't everything but but its seems they offered very similar output (all 3) and i'm not sure you could isolate 1 over another.

FWIW, Jack had team high 2 marks on lead
Jack had team high 2 goal assists
Team high tackles inside 50.

To go with 0.2, so far from the worse on the ground.