East West Tunnel

[JonHenry]

One of the problems with our transport infrastructure is that it's not integrated.

A rail line should have been built down the middle of the Eastern Freeway and another should have gone in on  the Tullamarine.  It's a scandal that we don't have a train servicing Melbourne Airport'

Of course, the radial nature of our rail system needs to be addressed with suburban interchanges getting people to their destinations without going through the CBD.  Getting heavy vehicles off the road wouldn't go astray but it all costs money and Aussie politicians are terrified of raising taxes, or even not reducing current taxes.

Melbourne is not the only city to suffer traffic chaos when something goes wrong.  I was heading north out of Paris a couple of years ago and there was a truck fire on the inbound lane.  The traffic was banked up for 21kms and there were hundreds of vehicles still heading towards the jam.

You're right many other cities experience traffic issues but I don't know of any that piss away $1billion.
Most of the traffic that goes through royal park could have gone underground.
Just simply wasteful and arrogant.
Obviously from people who find it very easy to spend someone else's money

[madbluboy]

Doesn't come close to the Monash carpark.

[crashlander]

Heavily invest?
We live in one of the biggest cities in the world area wise.
We have a modest population per sq km.
Who gets the public transport?
You cannot provide it to everyone without spending our grand kids pensions.

Back to reality, we wasted $1b on nothing.

Melbourne has never been in a position to make the most of public transport. As a city it has always had a spread out population to deal with. Even in its infancy, the people who came to Melbourne like room and moved to where it was as quickly as they could. Granted that they did grow where the public transport was (very good planning 130 years ago - wonder what happened since?), but they did move out as quickly as they could. Melbourne has always had a very low population density.
The problem with putting public transport in now, as the population is becoming somewhat more concentrated, is that it has NOT be planned for. The spaces for the it don't exist. Much of the ground once covered by train tracks was long ago sold and built on. Remember, there was a train track only 100 m North of Princes Park for a long time: some of that still remains today, but not much.
Hence the problem the Andrews' Government has at the moment with their effort to replace level crossings. There is no place to go but up or down, and down is expensive.
To be honest, building underground is the way to go. Just have a look at London's tube system, which is a really good transport system. But we don't yet have the population density to make this viable and we don't have the money to do it. Nor are we likely to any time soon.
There are simply some things that governments cannot do (although very few have ever thought of admitting it).

The other good thing about the Tube in London is that it is not relatively expensive. The system can make a profit while still not breaking the bank. That is not the case here. Companies do not see the way to make a profit and fares are not cheap. The fare system is illogical and confusing. If they do not invest, then it is harder to make public transport work at all.

The other thing we really lack is long term planning. Back in Melbourne's infancy there was money (from Gold) and some reasonable planning (at least in the Eastern Suburbs). The idea then was to design a system that allowed traffic to quickly and efficiently. That model died some time ago. Governments rarely look past the next election - after all, if they look further ahead, then it is likely that the other mob gets the credit for it coming to fruition on their watch.
For example, Labour didn't like freeways. They twice sold the land that was to join the 2 sections of what is now the Monash Freeway. Twice the Libs, who like freeways, had to buy it back, at great cost.

For the East West Link to work as it should, the land the Libs acquired was necessary. That that they may not get access to it, then the East West Link will forever have major issues, even if the rest gets built at all.

The Ring road is another case of very poor design. It has built in bottlenecks that become very obvious most afternoons. More ring roads should have been planned into Melbourne after WWII. But they were not, so we have about half a ring that suffers each day.
London's Ring road is much better designed that ours, and it still has major issues. It simply wasn't designed to handle the number of cars that use it. Ours was never adequate and wasn't on the first day it was opened.

To conclude, I can't see transport in Melbourne getting any better. It needs money that can't and won't be spent. It needs good design and long term planning, neither of which are likely. It needs the sort of major overhaul that Paris experienced in the 2nd Empire, turning Paris was the most disgusting city in Europe into one that still impresses. Baron Hausmann got a free hand and plenty of money from Napoleon III. Parisians hated it until they saw how good it was. We have no Napoleon III, no Baron Hausmann and no resources. We have 'residents' groups' that fight any change just about anywhere. We have a distinct lack of planning and a total hatred of the straight line in roads. That just doesn't look good as more people are coming here every day.

[Gointocarlton]

We have 'residents' groups' that fight any change just about anywhere. We have a distinct lack of planning and a total hatred of the straight line in roads. That just doesn't look good as more people are coming here every day.

Top post Crash. And just on the last point, not only do we have groups that fight any change, we go and make a critical piece of infrastructure, that the everyone can benefit from, an election issue. How imbecilic was that? What does which political party you support have to do with a bit of "kit" EVERYONE can benefit from? It makes no sense to me.

[crashlander]

One of the problems with our transport infrastructure is that it's not integrated.

Very true. And very clear when you trying to get away from the footy after a game.

A rail line should have been built down the middle of the Eastern Freeway and another should have gone in on  the Tullamarine.  It's a scandal that we don't have a train servicing Melbourne Airport'

I am not sure a train line down the middle of the freeway is a good idea, but to have no train line going directly from the airport to the city is insane.

Of course, the radial nature of our rail system needs to be addressed with suburban interchanges getting people to their destinations without going through the CBD.  Getting heavy vehicles off the road wouldn't go astray but it all costs money and Aussie politicians are terrified of raising taxes, or even not reducing current taxes.

The radial system is fine, as long as there are some rings to go around the outside. There never has been. That rail cannot compete with road, even in the middle of the city, is a sever design deficiency.

Melbourne is not the only city to suffer traffic chaos when something goes wrong.  I was heading north out of Paris a couple of years ago and there was a truck fire on the inbound lane.  The traffic was banked up for 21kms and there were hundreds of vehicles still heading towards the jam.

Paris worked very well for a long while, with its wider streets and boulevards and reasonable public transport system. But it was not designed for the number of people it has now. Their freeway system, with toll booths, is a nightmare. The population simply expanded far quicker than the ideas of how to deal with it. And there is no Napoleon III to force the people of Paris to do what is necessary.

One of the dubious advantages of losing a really big war is the ability to redesign your cities from the rubble. Germany experienced that. They also have a LOT of cities instead of a lot of megalopolises. Only Berlin (which didn't have a choice) and München have grown to the point where their infrastructure is badly stressed. The other cities are small enough and concentrated enough for a decent public transport system and a lot of good road design to make them work.

Anyone for nuking Melbourne and Sydney back to the stone age?

[crashlander]

Top post Crash. And just on the last point, not only do we have groups that fight any change, we go and make a critical piece of infrastructure, that the everyone can benefit from, an election issue. How imbecilic was that? What does which political party you support have to do with a bit of "kit" EVERYONE can benefit from? It makes no sense to me.

Thanks, but I am sorry it was something of an essay. I seem to write a LOT more nowadays (at Uni, as a Maths/Science student, the fewer words the better was my mantra).
And your point was very true. There is very little bipartisan support for major projects. Making infrastructure like that an election issue basically ensured its death.
In some ways it shows the evolution of our politics. We have a very adversarial system. Back in the day there were different parties, but they could get along enough to do what was necessary. That is no longer the case. The Labour Party and the Liberals cannot see eye to eye on anything short of a war while the Greens want a basic change to most things in our society.

[laj]

Blame the Liberals entirely. Signed the East/West contract trying to play politics knowing they were going to lose the election, also knowing Labor wasn't building it. It went to the election and Labor won. How many people complaining that it's not being built voted Labor? Andrews made a promise and he kept it. Libs were only going to Toll up every other road to pay for it, meaning people like me, who wouldn't use the East/West link would have to pay a toll on another road.

Westgate Freeway can be pretty bad, so the Western Distributor suits me alot better. Personally couldn't give a toss about the East/West link.

[Gointocarlton]

Blame the Liberals entirely. Signed the East/West contract trying to play politics knowing they were going to lose the election, also knowing Labor wasn't building it. It went to the election and Labor won. How many people complaining that it's not being built voted Labor? Andrews made a promise and he kept it. Libs were only going to Toll up every other road to pay for it, meaning people like me, who wouldn't use the East/West link would have to pay a toll on another road.

Westgate Freeway can be pretty bad, so the Western Distributor suits me alot better. Personally couldn't give a toss about the East/West link.

Guess that proves my point. But as long a dirty swine of a polly kept his election promise, thats the main thing huh. Proved a real good point he did.

[Jofo]

Took me over 90 minutes to get home today (From Kew)....and i live in the north and was nowhere near the west gate and its holdups.

East west tunnel would work, but its a bandaid on a potentially lethal cut.

They need to heavily invest in PT and get all these cars off the road, then there will be less traffic and less traffic accidents!

It's not about cars or public transport. It's about freight and trades workers trying to cross town. You can't get freight or tools on trains. We all end up paying for the delays and that's what Andrews and the other dickheads can't work out. Just build it!

[ItsOurTime]

Not trying to justify wasting a billion dollars, but as carrots said, its far from unusual.

Build the link, sure, but in 10 years time it'll be just like it is now. Bandaid solution.

Rail needs a rethink to handle the extra, sure, but it can be done

How does that make it a bandaid? There's not a single bit of complicated infrastructure you build once and forget. It needs investment and updating otherwise it becomes an issue.