Paris Olympics - swipes, gripes, controversies and triumphs

[PaulP]

I had no idea that so many on social media are chromosome and gender experts. I guess it's not surprising, because they are also inflation experts, infectious disease experts, foreign policy experts, French performance art experts, military experts, political experts......

[madbluboy]

If it's irrelevant compete in the men's division then.

[Thryleon]

This one is definitely controversial but it may not be as straight foward as it seems.

From what I've read so far, it is a case of a female athlete possessing an XY chromosome (which is a maker for a male) but for all other purposes this person has lived their life as a female with basically female anatomy.
She hasn't transitioned.
That may change as more information is known.

Now going to the sports psychology of the incident.
If you go into a contest believing that your opponent has an unfair advantage it would mess with your head.
You're as good as beaten.
Early aspects of the fight may have reinforced that idea in the Italian fighter's head.
"She punched harder than I've ever been punched before"...that may have been real.
Or it may have been an impression, justifying the already pre-conceived idea that this was an opponent with advantages 'above and beyond'.
I sympathise with Carini because for her it is 'real' and she is distraught that after years of training she couldn't continue... that's one of the complexities of competition at this level

That's speculative, it's a what might have happened.
I think we need to know more before we make a judgement.

Sorry I just don't care.

This is where the world is going.

One body banned them.  One says they followed a flawed process to do so.

The record is 41 and 9 against female athletes and has been to an Olympics before.  Who knows for sure but I'd be concerned talking to either of them in a night club. 

[deepbluesee]

https://x.com/babble____/status/18194003...pVkGBXO22Q

Cheating, sport corruption , Russian influence or ....
Some additional reading if interested

Read the Reddit article, not necessarily the comments

[Lods]

I had no idea that so many on social media are chromosome and gender experts. I guess it's not surprising, because they are also inflation experts, infectious disease experts, foreign policy experts, French performance art experts, military experts, political experts......

I'm certainly not claiming to be an expert....In fact the opposite. The initial reaction to this from many  was "it's  a man beating up a woman". Five minutes of looking a bit deeper and the situation is much more complicated and folks with a lot more information and expertise in this area than any of us have decided it all sits within the rules.

[madbluboy]

It's not complicated.

Males compete against males.
Females compete against males.
Intersex compete against males.

[Lods]

It's not that simple though...
This is a different situation from someone transitioning later in life.

If you want to fight that Caitlyn Jenner shouldn't be allowed to compete against Masters women in track and field competitions I'll jump in the trench with you. I suspect Jenner would be right there with us.

But if you're born with female anatomy and lived your life as a female you would have competed against women all your life in sporting competitions...maybe not knowing that there is part of your genetic make-up that is not exclusively female.
This is not a case of a woman transitioning to a man, or a man transitioning to a woman.
Genetic testing isn't done on a Saturday afternoon before the event in junior competitions.
It's something you have to deal with when you a reach a level of world and Olympic Championships.

This is not a simple XX and XY debate.
It is super complicated and I reckon there would be many women running around in those Saturday afternoon competitions...some with extra muscle definition, or perhap other aspects of their physical appearance that is just a little bit different from their team-mates, who have no idea of their exact genetic make-up but who regard themselves and are regarded as totally female. In some case it gives them a physical advantage.
Do we want to test all these women before we decide whether they're in the Mens, Womens or Everyone else.
I suspect that 'Everyone else' group is much larger than folks realise.

[PaulP]

I'm certainly not claiming to be an expert....In fact the opposite. The initial reaction to this from many  was "it's  a man beating up a woman". Five minutes of looking a bit deeper and the situation is much more complicated and folks with a lot more information and expertise in this area than any of us have decided it all sits within the rules.

I agree, and certainly not including you in the social media harmfulness and toxicity.

[DJC]

Wemby had a 61cm advantage over his Japanese opponent and that’s a product of genetics.  Perhaps we should ban folk who have a competitive advantage through the vagaries of DNA.

Khelif competed at the Tokyo Olympics without any fuss.  Perhaps she didn’t land a lucky punch there ?

[PaulP]

This whole debate, like all such debates, is garbage. All of us exist on a spectrum of strength, skill, athletic ability etc. Should Kenyan and Ethiopian long distance runners be banned for having a few genetic advantages ? What about swimmers with unnaturally large feet ?