AFL Rd 20 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide

[cookie2]

Shawny...Agree on Hogan, Charlie has way more natural talent but Hogan is working harder than I have ever seen him and I like the Charlie who also works hard for his teammates too but he has become more spasmodic in this regard and I have the feeling is more interested in his own goal tally rather than being part of a forward collective.
He should kick a truckload on duds like Zerk-Thatcher or Esava Ratagolea this week if he can get out of cruise mode....

Agreed. Once he has been beaten or not gained possession his efforts seem to quickly fall away. However he did seem a bit better v Nth but not really where I would like to see him.

[DJC]

Comparing Charlie and Hogan's stats for the season tells an interesting story.  They've both played 18 games so totals are appropriate.

Scores - Charlie: 53.38  Hogan: 49.17
Score involvements - Charlie: 137  Hogan: 117
Goal assists - Charlie: 14  Hogan: 10
Disposals - Charlie: 224 Hogan: 210
Marks - Charlie: 109  Hogan: 109
Marks inside 50 - Charlie: 49  Hogan: 71
Inside 50s - Charlie: 48  Hogan: 17
Rebound 50s - Charlie: 8  Hogan: 1
Intercepts - Charlie: 21  Hogan: 10
Tackles - Charlie: 16  Hogan: 26
Frees for - Charlie: 23  Hogan: 22
Frees against - Charlie: 10  Hogan: 5
1%ers - Charlie: 33  Hogan: 28
Metres gained - Charlie: 5202  Hogan: 3645

Hogan is an old fashioned, stay at home full forward whose job is to kick goals, and he does that very well with good service from his teammates and a "me first" approach.  Charlie is a more mobile key forward/utility who gets up the ground, gets involved in different play phases, takes on the game and is very much a team first player.

[PaulP]

Leaving aside Carlton and GWS, you could ask 16 other clubs whether they would choose Charlie the slacker or Jesse the hardest working man in show business, and I bet all 16 would choose Charlie. I doubt very much those clubs would be quibbling about untested and unfounded comments on social media.

All communities develop over time a certain level of internal coherence, mainly through self referencing and self validation, but the "truths" held by those communities don't necessarily correspond to facts regarding the subject matter at hand. This is a reality that cannot be avoided. None of us have any clue wrt Charlie's training loads, injury status, game plan / game day instructions, taking a long term view on his role / game time etc. Personally, I doubt Voss, Weitering, Walsh and co would tolerate half ar$ed efforts, and if they do, then we are not a professional outfit : semi professional at best, corrupt at worst.

[madbluboy]

Not sure what stats for the whole year have to do with discussion on a recent form slump.

[PaulP]

https://afltables.com/afl/stats/players/...html#20240

Whatever other information may be available, the numbers from AFL Tables suggest that his two poor games were Tigers and Giants. A post earlier from MBB asserts that a drop between Rds 1-11 and R12 onward is most likely due to injury,and if so, then his performances since R12 are all the more remarkable IMO, even allowing for the 2 poor games.

[shawny]

Charlie is a star and i never said anything otherwise BUT his raw ability doesn't exclude him from criticism if he is not giving his absolute all.

Tom Hafey was renowned for saying the one non negotiable to being a long term successful team is every single player must give 100% all the time regardless of the different levels of ability.

Want to see Charlie run his player ragged and attack every contest like it matters. He has athletic ability very few defenders can go through.  He is not doing that at the moment and stats showing how good his year is or saying other teams would want him in a heartbeat doesn't change my point.   

Our flag hopes rests on every player buying in 100% from the best player to the worst player. Collingwood were not the best team last year ability wise but they took the cup home.

[LP]

Charlie is a star and i never said anything otherwise BUT his raw ability doesn't exclude him from criticism if he is not giving his absolute all.

He could be injured, nobody knows, maybe that ankle roll caused a loss of confidence or increased caution, finals approach.

He could equally be playing a role to a modified set of instructions.

It could be an effect of BigH having a change of form, or TDK, Cripps, etc., etc..

Is it possibly related to different MC team tactics for different opposition, a tweak here or there?

The asymmetry of the AFL season doesn't help anybody decipher this as we have numerous one off games, and changes in opposition selection, lots of potential drivers of change that fans will be ignorant to and aren't depicted in any set of stats.

As always, the way a set of numbers can get analysed and interpreted by humans will often frame conclusions that aren't represented in the numbers alone.

[madbluboy]

Kane Kornes wants Harry to miss this week. I wonder why?

[LP]

Kane Kornes wants Harry to miss this week. I wonder why?

Kane a caring, thoughtful and considerate individual who puts the interest of other ahead of his own! ;D

If not for TDK's injury, this week might have been one of the games the MC could have run with two rucks, Sweet and Dixon present a formidable duo across the whole surface. It's a bit like Stanley and Hawkins when they are in and fit.

It would be untenable for a ruck, even a ruck as mobile as TDK, to be competing in F50 one moment then 80m away competing with Dixon in D50 seconds later, rinse and repeat. This is an example of the fantasy expectation that fans develop when arguing stats alone.

[kruddler]

Kane Kornes wants Harry to miss this week. I wonder why?

In all honesty, he 100% should've missed this week. The stumble after getting back to his feet is a dead giveaway and what the AFL are looking to get out of he game.

However, Kane wouldn't be so altrustic in his logic would he.