AFL Rd 13 2024 Post Game Celebrations - Carlton vs Essendon

[DJC]

Tom had six tackles against Port Adelaide and, while he had a damn good game, he wasn’t at the same level as he was against Essendon.  Getting the pill is usually far more effective than tackling, as is crunching packs, making critical spoils and taking marks.

Take Rowell against us for example.  He had 15 tackles and virtually no impact on the game other than forcing stoppages, most of which we won (Rowell got one free kick for the game and that may not have been for a tackle). Rowell was basically towelled up and tried to compensate by tackling at every opportunity.  He would have been more effective if he had tried to win the ball.

Then there’s Jacob Weitering; five tackles against the Dockers, six games with zero or one tackle for an average of 1.8 per game.  Tackling is not his job.  He will tackle if the opportunity arises but his priority is organising the defence and stopping his opponent getting the ball.  If he does the latter effectively, there’s no opportunity to tackle.

[LP]

Take Rowell against us for example.  He had 15 tackles and virtually no impact on the game other than forcing stoppages, most of which we won (Rowell got one free kick for the game and that may not have been for a tackle). Rowell was basically towelled up and tried to compensate by tackling at every opportunity.  He would have been more effective if he had tried to win the ball.

This a great example, because if you looked at the game stats retrospectively you'd think Rowell has had a blinder, when in fact we know he had little influence.

[laj]

I did say his endeavour was first class. But if he is going to be elite which he is will be consistently his tackle numbers need to be high.

Some weeks there isn't need to tackle when others are doing that job. May not have been an opportunity to tackle for that reason. What he did with other facets of the game were simply outstanding. Other games he has had quite a few tackles so he's obviously not adverse it it. More than one way of looking at it.

[DJC]

Some weeks there isn't need to tackle when others are doing that job. May not have been an opportunity to tackle for that reason. What he did with other facets of the game were simply outstanding. Other games he has had quite a few tackles so he's obviously not adverse it it. More than one way of looking at it.

I think that’s the key Jim; he should be racking up tackles in some games, as he does, but not in other games where he will have other priorities.

The bottom line is that both coaches gave him maximum votes and they both weren’t averse to the odd tackle back in their day.

[townsendcalling]

Interestingly, we bemoaned the fact that for weeks we were missing Fogarty's tackle pressure in the forward 50 yet on Sunday he didn't lay one!! 

[DJC]

Interestingly, we bemoaned the fact that for weeks we were missing Fogarty's tackle pressure in the forward 50 yet on Sunday he didn't lay one!!

And that’s where the tackle myth comes in. You don’t have to tackle to put pressure on your opponents.

[DJC]

Essendon laid more tackles , we had more turnovers and they even had better disposal efficiency overall...however if you cant kick straight when it matters then none of those other stats add up to much effect on the result.
We did shade them in the clearances where TDK did his best work and again we got smashed in the hitouts but those Goldstein taps had little influence at stoppages or on the result.

Tom was interviewed on SEN(?) recently and revealed a lot of information about our ruck tactics.  He gave a lot of credit to Matty Kreuzer for preparing him for his role in the ruck.

To start with, he knows everything there is to know about the opposition ruck; what leg he jumps off, what hand he prefers to hit with and where he likes to direct his hitouts. With Matty’s help, he develops a plan to defeat the opposition ruck, and that may not necessarily involve winning hitouts.

Tom is in charge at ruck contests and positions the midfielders to both take advantage of hitouts he wins and to shark or neutralise hitouts won by the opposition rucks.  Tom’s second and third efforts play a big part in that.

And that’s where the hitout to advantage statistic has little meaning. It’s the ruck-midfield combination that negates opposition hitouts and produces clearances that counts.

[kruddler]

And that’s where the hitout to advantage statistic has little meaning. It’s the ruck-midfield combination that negates opposition hitouts and produces clearances that counts.

It doesn't have little meaning, it backs up what you are saying. If all goes to plan, we get the hitout to advantage.
If it all goes to plan for the opposition, they do

It goes hand in hand with clearances.

Where it bares little resemblance is in hitouts themselves. They can go anywhere to anyone, including directly to the opposition. That is meaningless.

Also backs up what I've been saying a out backup rucks. The hitouts they get are irrelevant, it's the end result that matters (ie clearance) and nullifying the opposition's ability to get a clearance.

[pinot]

And that’s where the tackle myth comes in. You don’t have to tackle to put pressure on your opponents.

My view is entirely different when the opposition has field position like Essendon did. Tackling is the Alpha and Omega always has been - rucks need midfield numbers in conjuction with hit outs . We were very lucky Essendon did not kick straight and Cin got himself on the scoreboard twice there are many ways one can look at it. I'd put it down the boys were motivated but tired but need to do better.

[Thryleon]

We'll have games where it works and games where it doesn't. 

Regarding hitouts to advantage I think this statistic is a measure of the ability of a ruck to connect with his mids.  It could be argued the stronger the midfield the harder it is to gauge how capable a ruckman a team has particularly if the tactics aren't there to win clearance dominance.

The other component of that is that our mids are that strong that you might get skewed stats because they are capable of beating a lot of opposition midfields and winning the ball irrespective of who's rucking.  Would be fascinating to see mirkov ruck at afl level and see how he goes.