AFL Rd 5 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Adelaide

[pertz]

Why do small forwards always get the blame?

Not total blame, just part of the reason we are not playing as well as we are capable off.
The ball comes into the forward line and is brought to the ground often enough for the small forwards to create opportunities - they are not taking them.

[LP]

Not total blame, just part of the reason we are not playing as well as we are capable off.
The ball comes into the forward line and is brought to the ground often enough for the small forwards to create opportunities - they are not taking them.

Some of that is decision making by the Mids or HBFs, about where they kick the footy, and also coaching tactics.

We tend to play a game to get the SFs goal side of the footy rather than front and square.

Finally, it's easy to ask where are they, but for example you also do not want SFs getting in the way like Fantasia on BigH!

[kruddler]

Why do small forwards always get the blame?

I'm not blaming forwards and have spent a lot of time pointing out the good that is often missed by them.

However, when we have 3 of them who had 4 tackles between them, and were lower half of the pressure acts each.....you gotta start asking some questions.

Edit: Durdin had 3 himself.

[kruddler]

Only because of injuries, but that can happen for any position on the ground.

Fans seem oblivious to the risk of a single point of failure, which is the one ruck scenario, at least with Mids you have multiple points of failure so it's much easier to cover the loss of one.

We literally won game(s?) last year without a recognised ruck.

You, among others, have pointed out how pointless some ruck stats are.

You, amonth others, have pointed out that the around the ground work is more important than what happens in the ruck.

So why are you, among others, so fixated on the need for a second ruck in the side?

For the record, Harry did not attend a single ruck contest.

[madbluboy]

We won or broke even with every stat bar one.
Marks inside 50

We had 3 more inside 50s for 8 more scoring shots.

Adelaide forwards beat our defenders (who played very loose) and were extremely accurate.

[madbluboy]

I'm not blaming forwards and have spent a lot of time pointing out the good that is often missed by them.

However, when we have 3 of them who had 2 tackles between them, and were lower half of the pressure acts each.....you gotta start asking some questions.

If Motlop, Martin, Cunningham or Fogarty were available then they would be playing but they're not.

Our defenders didn't pay them enough respect. Weitering was giving Walker way too much space, if Adelaide were a better team hevwould have kicked 7 or 8.

[LP]

We literally won game(s?) last year without a recognised ruck.

You, among others, have pointed out how pointless some ruck stats are.

You, amonth others, have pointed out that the around the ground work is more important than what happens in the ruck.

So why are you, among others, so fixated on the need for a second ruck in the side?

For the record, Harry did not attend a single ruck contest.

Beyond the ruck Pitto had 6 clearances yesterday and kicked a goal and 5 score involvements, and without winning much in terms of other ruck stats when he went to the centre he either slowed the Crows or swung momentum our way. Because Pitto is suited to opposing O'Brien.

If Pitto's not there and TDK continued to get smashed we'd have been forced into moving BigH into the ruck, early in the game BigH was out only effective F50 player.

You're obsessed with some of this ruck stuff, you've gone the early crow with SoJ and other secondary ruck options and now you're committed to it, it's leaving you blind to the wider picture. Yesterday the ruck stats had Pitto and TDK equal, but nobody on the planet could watch that game and think Pitto and TDK had the same influence.

[Lods]

I must admit I had a bit of a laugh when Cerra was replaced by Pittonet.
I thought to myself "Kruddler's head will explode" )  )

But I also have to admit I thought it was a bit of a strange selection, and that Cincotta would have been a better option.

It puts more on the shoulders of others as a result, and the benefit we get from it is not worth it.
Pitto had 6 clearances, only beaten by Walsh (8 ) and Cripps (7). He even kicked a goal. Put Cerra back in the side and he'd get the same amount of clearances (if not more), more possessions and is more likely to kick a goal most weeks as well.
So what benefit did we get from Pitto? A few extra hitouts to advantage....most likely leading to clearances.....which could've been equalled by having another pure midfielder in the team.
So what were the disadvantages....more gametime required by others, less run and pressure around the ball.....which is our strength.

I guess my issue with this, as it has always been with this debate is....
What are you replacing the ruckman with?
It's not going to be someone of the standard of Cerra.
It's going to be a fringe AFL player from the VFL who is not necessarily going to give you the same output as Pittonet produced in  half a game yesterday.
Now Cincotta would probably have been a better option once Cerra was out, maybe even give Binns a chance...but who else? (we'll pop over to the VFL now to have a look)  
Most likely that extra player would have had minimal impact.

(I'm not sure why Pittonet only played half a game on the ground- managed, slight injury...watch this space. He could have rested either forward or back.)

I can see all the benefits of one ruck.
But I can also see the benefit in a long season in alternating them on some occasions and on others sharing the load and developing an understanding and combination.

[ElwoodBlues1]

Crows had more one percenters and more uncontested possession which probably indicates they worked a bit harder for each other.
We won the clearances which probably shows you thats a tad overrated as a stat but no doubt their accuracy up forward kept them in the game and we frittered away a few chances.
re: Small forwards......Martin and Motlop being out has affected how we operate and Im sure they would have been more effective than Fantasia and Durdin who dont impact enough either getting the ball or being able to kick goals.
No need to panic as we have the answers to a few of our problems its just they are injured or the usual MC selection mistakes that get made every now and then. Not sure why we played two ruckman when Adelaide only run one in Obrien and a very novice part timer in Gollant.....

[LP]

Fans like to gloss over that in the last few weeks we've also been using Kennedy alongside Cripps in the ruck, but that's a shock tactic, you get away with it once or twice but not more often, it ends once the opposition are alerted to it.

Of course it's only an option against select opponents and midfields.

The ruck had nothing to do with our loss yesterday, it's just fans clinging to something to blame, and a bit of opportunistic rock throwing.

Subjectively we seemed worse when TDK was on the ball, for reasons I've already outlined, and he is the more mobile option for those of you purely focussed on chains of play. But O'Brien is in his head now, and it's likely TDK will never truly better him, all we can do is find ways for TDK to break even or become useful in other areas when we oppose O'Brien. We have to make O'Brien chase TDK, at the moment O'Brien basically ignores TDK.