AFL 2023 Preliminary Final Carlton vs Brisbane Post Game Prognostications

[laj]

Let's not forget the impact of the umpiring non-decisions that robbed GWS, nothing players can do to manage those moments!

Ultimately, the Filth took their opportunities no matter how they were delivered, they might be lucky but hard work also tends to make you lucky!

As the saying goes, the harder you work, the "luckier" you get.

With the Pies, and Carlton, during the 2nd half of the year, they get a sniff, luck or otherwise, they find a way.

[laj]

I guess the same could be said about going with two very good around the ground rucks when neither can play the support/tall forward role.

Yes, right there you have Melbourne's issue this year.

[kruddler]

Yes, there's no hard and fast rule about ruck/forward combinations, but your point about not going with two one-dimensional rucks is pretty close to being a rule.  I guess the same could be said about going with two very good around the ground rucks when neither can play the support/tall forward role.

Pitto and the King, when they're on, make a formidable combination.  They weren't really on against McInerney but Cox and Cameron were on in the GF and limited McInerney's influence.

Levi will be preparing for his third season since we announced his retirement  :

Thats what i've been saying all along. This is why it relates to OUR team, and not other teams that play 2 rucks, or 1 ruck or whatever.

This is why i prefer when Jack plays backup ruck because he doesn't have to do much in the actual ruck, but he does a lot more around the ground than any of Pitto and TDK.

I said at the start of the year that all of this is dependent on TDK and IF he can learn to play another role, we are better off. If not, its a luxury we cannot afford.

I don't care if other teams play 1 ruck, or 23 rucks, that doesn't matter to me. What matters to me is OUR rucks and what they can (and can't do) and thats what effects balance.

Another thing (or 2) that works against us in this instance is....
1. Our bigger midfield and its inability to chase....or more to the point, catch anyone outside of a contest. See Cripps and Kennedy
2. Our 3rd (or 4th) taller defenders. Weitering, Kemp, McGovern, Marchbank all playing together (at times) down back mean we are extra tall down there.
Put it all together and we are asking our smaller/quicker mids (and forwards) to simply do too much to run, chase, tackle and pressure.

So yes, team balance is about our team, not other teams because it is about OUR players, and rucks.

[DJC]

Thats what i've been saying all along. This is why it relates to OUR team, and not other teams that play 2 rucks, or 1 ruck or whatever.

This is why i prefer when Jack plays backup ruck because he doesn't have to do much in the actual ruck, but he does a lot more around the ground than any of Pitto and TDK.

I said at the start of the year that all of this is dependent on TDK and IF he can learn to play another role, we are better off. If not, its a luxury we cannot afford.

I don't care if other teams play 1 ruck, or 23 rucks, that doesn't matter to me. What matters to me is OUR rucks and what they can (and can't do) and thats what effects balance.

Another thing (or 2) that works against us in this instance is....
1. Our bigger midfield and its inability to chase....or more to the point, catch anyone outside of a contest. See Cripps and Kennedy
2. Our 3rd (or 4th) taller defenders. Weitering, Kemp, McGovern, Marchbank all playing together (at times) down back mean we are extra tall down there.
Put it all together and we are asking our smaller/quicker mids (and forwards) to simply do too much to run, chase, tackle and pressure.

So yes, team balance is about our team, not other teams because it is about OUR players, and rucks.

Nothing like flogging a dead horse ?

I think that most folk agree that playing Jack Silvagni as second ruck does not work.  He might get the odd clearance but the opposition second stringers touch him up.  McInerney and Daniher would have a picnic, as would Cox and Cameron.

Backing up in the ruck also affects Jack’s output as third tall forward.

Our best ruck combination, until someone else comes along, is Pittonet and De Koning, followed by De Koning and O’Keeffe, then Pittonet and O’Keeffe.

The solution to the lack of foot speed by some of our mids isn’t playing the even slower Silvagni as a second ruck.

Anyway, we won 11 of our last 13, the only team to do so, and I think the MC have got the team balance exactly where it should be.

[kruddler]

Nothing like flogging a dead horse ?

Just pointing out that you agree with me without realising it.

I think that most folk agree that playing Jack Silvagni as second ruck does not work.  He might get the odd clearance but the opposition second stringers touch him up.  McInerney and Daniher would have a picnic, as would Cox and Cameron.

Backing up in the ruck also affects Jack’s output as third tall forward.

Our best ruck combination, until someone else comes along, is Pittonet and De Koning, followed by De Koning and O’Keeffe, then Pittonet and O’Keeffe.

The solution to the lack of foot speed by some of our mids isn’t playing the even slower Silvagni as a second ruck.

Anyway, we won 11 of our last 13, the only team to do so, and I think the MC have got the team balance exactly where it should be.

Your comments about us 'suffering' in the ruck by comparison and Jacks output as a forward have both been debunked with stats, but you continue to push it. So be it. I don't expect to change your mind.

I will point out when you agree with the logic behind it.
I will point out when any objections are untrue.

[blueianh]

Our best ruck combination, until someone else comes along, is Pittonet and De Koning, followed by De Koning and O’Keeffe, then Pittonet and O’Keeffe.

The solution to the lack of foot speed by some of our mids isn’t playing the even slower Silvagni as a second ruck....

It might not be long before that first combination falls behind the other two.  Certainly it gives us  better mobility and forward craft than any combination involving Pitto, but we lose his physicality.  Not that O'Keeffe is shy of putting his body on the line but he doesn't - yet - have the size to do it effectively against most AFL first rucks.

As to JSOS rucking not being a solution to lack of leg speed, the comparison is not to the other mids but to whoever would be doing the second ruck role if not JSOS.  If that were Pitto or Mirkov for example, then JSOS clearly is quicker, not so if it is TDK, Harry McKay or say Dom Akuei (not that he is near firsts level) he was keeping out of that role.

[pinot]

I think it's obvious now that TDK is first choice ruck and will take more responsibility moving forward.

Who will relieve him......interesting question and I don't think the club has the answer. I actually think it's Jack but we will see.

[LP]

On this ruck debate, too much emphasis is being put on specific traits and not nearly enough on the contrast.

For me it's not how fast TDK might be, or how strong Pitto is, what is important is the fact they are very different which turns out to be complimentary. We aren't out of the contest in any circumstance with that combination, and it makes us harder to play against because we have a tool for every job, which I think puts that combination well ahead of the other options.

Making up jobs for the likes of SoJ or Akuei isn't the way forward, players should have to win a spot for their preferred / primary role before they are considered for 2nd or 3rd tier tasks.

[Thryleon]

I still can't believe we are talking about selection issues for a guy that didn't play footy in the last 6 weeks and the one time he did he broke down by quarter time.

[ElwoodBlues1]

I think TDK still needs Pittonet to do the monkey work for him early softening up the opposition stronger rucks and does his best work at the back end of games when he is fresher than the opposition.
I wouldn't be calling him No 1 ruck yet when he still needs a baby sitter....