AFL Rd 17 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Fremantle

[PaulP]

Coaches' votes :

10 Adam Cerra (CARL)
6 Patrick Cripps (CARL)
4 Sam Walsh (CARL)
4 Luke Ryan (FRE)
2 Harry McKay (CARL)
2 Adam Saad (CARL)
1 Jacob Weitering (CARL)
1 Charlie Curnow (CARL)

[DJC]

Hitouts are useless it seems.

It depends on who is hitting them and who is in position to reap the rewards.

I think that our plan was to disrupt the hitouts so that they didn't provide an advantage to the Freo mids.  Young and Silvagni put a lot of effort into buffeting Darcy and Jackson so that their hitouts weren't well-directed.  Our mids were able to shark the hitouts or shut down the Freo mids when they did gather hitouts.  It's a situation where a "hitouts to disadvantage" statistic would be useful.

[kruddler]

It depends on who is hitting them and who is in position to reap the rewards.

I think that our plan was to disrupt the hitouts so that they didn't provide an advantage to the Freo mids.  Young and Silvagni put a lot of effort into buffeting Darcy and Jackson so that their hitouts weren't well-directed.  Our mids were able to shark the hitouts or shut down the Freo mids when they did gather hitouts.  It's a situation where a "hitouts to disadvantage" statistic would be useful.

Yes, hitouts sharked is the official term and i've only managed to track it down by contacted Champion data directly, and that was a summary of 50 rucks from the first 12 rounds or so. Nothing on a game by game breakdown etc. They only gave it to me as a one off because i sweet talked them

I have often used Silvagni as an example of what you described. Might not win the contest, but ensure the opposition has a hard time of it by bodying the ruckmen out of the way. Something someone like Young lacks in comparison.....and TDK largely as well.

It was very much a team performance.

[kruddler]

I have come around on that but unfortunately I'm going to disagree on who the one ruckman is.

Well at least you've seen the light.....2 rucks are a waste.

Realistically, If TDK got halfway near where his potential is, he should be our #1 ruck picked. I think a couple times over the past 12 months he probably has been. However, his inconsistency, and is lack of aggression work against him.

Around the ground, he offers 1 disposal more than Pittonet does this year....but that is also with 8% more game time on average. So roughly 10 minutes more TOG and gets 1 possession in that time. So there is SFA between them in pure numbers - posted comparison elsewhere in the past week. Pittonet has played a lot of this year injured/underdone so long term those %'s might not hold up.

IMO Pittonets advantage in ruck craft is why he deserves the #1 mantle. His tapwork is elite. His aggression is something we don't get from anyone else on the ground (who is somewhat comparable in size at least)

[Lods]

Here's the problem though.
We mostly rate Tom on what he might be capable of...
Hope of his potential being realised.

But if he's not playing seniors how is he to realise that potential.
Playing VFL won't do it for him.
It's a different game in terms of pressure, structure, team-mates, opposition and other variables.

If he's behind Pittonet and Pittonet is performing and we go with the one ruck he never gets the chance.

[kruddler]

Here's the problem though.
We mostly rate Tom on what he might be capable of...
Hope of his potential being realised.

But if he's not playing seniors how is he to realise that potential.
Playing VFL won't do it for him.
It's a different game in terms of pressure, structure, team-mates, opposition and other variables.

If he's behind Pittonet and Pittonet is performing and we go with the one ruck he never gets the chance.

If Pittonet is performing, and we are winning, why do we wanna change that?

Rucks (at least our rucks) always get injured, so there will always be an opportunity.
Of course, if Harry/Charlie get injured, TDK is first called up there as well.

I just think playing someone because he COULD be better is a good way to ruin something good.
TDK hasn't been able to dominate VFL level yet. Let him knock down that door before we play the woe is me card for him.

[LordLucifer]

Late to the party and didn't see the game.

I was invited to a grass roots country football game. My recently deceased dad was a life member who'd filled every position from president to line marker, to water boy. He also played 400+ league games and coached juniors through to the league, winning multiple premierships.

To our surprise the club dedicated todays game to him. It will be an annual tribute match. All very moving for the family. He was such a humble man, we had no idea of the extent to which, he improved the on field performance and lives of so many people.

Arriving home to a big W v Dockers felt like a wonderful end to the weekend. The comments I've read so far are very encouraging, even heart-warming!
I can't wait to watch the replay.

Go Blues.

400 games !!

Reckon I would have enjoyed a chat over a beer or two with your Dad, the stories would be rolling out all session.

[LordLucifer]

Haven't see the game yet as I was working down in the Illawarra ...... (hello Lods).

Raydan did ring me whilst I was driving home and made a point of how 'crushing' the tackling was, he also pointed out the 'team first' mentality that was out there too.

Sounds like there is something to get really pleased about with this one, will try and watch the game over the next couple of days.

[Lods]

If Pittonet is performing, and we are winning, why do we wanna change that?

Rucks (at least our rucks) always get injured, so there will always be an opportunity.
Of course, if Harry/Charlie get injured, TDK is first called up there as well.

I just think playing someone because he COULD be better is a good way to ruin something good.
TDK hasn't been able to dominate VFL level yet. Let him knock down that door before we play the woe is me card for him.

He'll get a run, once fit, while Pittonet is injured.
But if we don't play him for the rest of the year once Pittonet returns we can probably kiss him goodbye.

I'm also having a bit of a problem with the 'hit-out to advantage' being a useful stat either.
We had 4 in 120 minutes of football and won the game by 50+ points
That's as useful as breasts on a male bovine.

Ruckmen are an endangered species.
They'll go the same way as the 'Rover'

[LoveNavy]

400 games !!

Reckon I would have enjoyed a chat over a beer or two with your Dad, the stories would be rolling out all session.

Virtually uninjured in 20yrs. He consistently ran 7 miles each way for training. That probably helped.

Family, football, friends, coaching/mentoring, fishing, and a cold frothy were some of his favourite things. I have no doubt he'd love to hear your stories. So would I for that matter. For a new thread maybe.