AFL Rd 14 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast

[PaulP]

That's a nice theory but, so far this season, the theory has not been supported by the outcomes.

The process is not linear and not a given. There are no guarantees that your best side produces a win. It simply gives you the best chance. You can be quite certain that if the MC picked the team based on supporter input, our season would look a lot worse.

[RiverRat]

The process is not linear and not a given. There are no guarantees that your best side produces a win. It simply gives you the best chance. You can be quite certain that if the MC picked the team based on supporter input, our season would look a lot worse.

That goes without saying but I am still not impressed with the MC's judgement.

[PaulP]

That goes without saying but I am still not impressed with the MC's judgement.

That's fine, but you need to accept that their judgment comes with a wealth of insight, knowledge and experience that is not available to any supporter. We are, all of us, starting from a position of ignorance. It cannot be any other way. I don't mean ignorance about AFL football in general terms, I mean ignorance about all the inputs that are required to make player selection decisions from week to week.

[Baggers]

That's fine, but you need to accept that their judgment comes with a wealth of insight, knowledge and experience that is not available to any supporter. We are, all of us, starting from a position of ignorance. It cannot be any other way. I don't mean ignorance about AFL football in general terms, I mean ignorance about all the inputs that are required to make player selection decisions from week to week.

Fair points, Pauly... however...

Sometimes having a lot of information about players and the inputs you speak of can make the MC too subjective/close; even to the point of gifting blokes games based on reputation or even physical attributes alone to handle a specific position. And supporters (who think without sentimentality), have a basis of judgement solely on what they see on match day, and have a level of detachment/objectivity which can validate certain perspectives.

In addition we humble supporters witnessed, this year especially, out of form blokes being gifted game after game based on nothing more than potential/promise/reputation without delivery; persistent failure week after week - Fisher, JSOS, Honey, etc... much to the chagrin of we humble observers.

[ElwoodBlues1]

That's a nice theory but, so far this season, the theory has not been supported by the outcomes.

Yep our MC usually lose us a few games through the season with ridiculous selections/non selections.

[PaulP]

Fair points, Pauly... however...

Sometimes having a lot of information about players and the inputs you speak of can make the MC too subjective/close; even to the point of gifting blokes games based on reputation or even physical attributes alone to handle a specific position. And supporters (who think without sentimentality), have a basis of judgement solely on what they see on match day, and have a level of detachment/objectivity which can validate certain perspectives.

In addition we humble supporters witnessed, this year especially, out of form blokes being gifted game after game based on nothing more than potential/promise/reputation without delivery; persistent failure week after week - Fisher, JSOS, Honey, etc... much to the chagrin of we humble observers.

I disagree. I would bet both testy satchels that supporters have way more attachment / sentimentality to certain players than the MC. It is simply impossible for outsiders to have the knowledge required. As a supporter we have one input with which to guess a player's suitability for selection (game day performance). The MC has several inputs, which we cannot see and cannot know.  We are handicapped to begin with, a handicap that is impossible to overcome. Within the comfort of one's own mind, or within the comfort of the CSC echo chamber, naturally we're right and the MC is wrong. I get that.

You are simply making assumptions about players being gifted games, MC foolishly persisting with certain players etc. I'm just speculating here, but I've heard Voss, Chris Scott and others on a number of occasions extolling the virtues of continuity - maybe what you classify as under performers being gifted games, is perhaps something that has a bigger objective behind it ? Perhaps chopping and changing week in week out creates too much instability, for a club that has had far too much of that in recent times ? Perhaps also another reason that such players get games is because the alternatives are worse ?

And there's nothing humble about keyboard warriors thinking they know more / could do a better job than professional football staff. Just take Voss as an example. He's been in the system for 30 odd years. By the time you take into account junior football, the various pathway programs that lead to AFL footy, 289 games on an AFL list with all the attendant accolades, 140 odd games as senior coach at 2 clubs, 7 seasons as Port assistant. How many thousands of hours does that equate to ? Add to that the experience of the other assistants, inputs from the senior players / leaders..............there's a lot of experience and knowledge there. Now clearly, the combined best efforts of all those individuals have not been good enough, and some would say nowhere near good enough. And to some extent that's true. But it's simply crazy to say that I know better than the MC, I decree that such and such a selection was a balls up etc.

Forums like this are dress ups and role playing for blokes. We can all have a go and be experts, pretend that we're the coach, the MC etc. We can all yell and scream and think this player stuffed up, the MC stuffed up, the club etc. But a little perspective and little humility go a long way.

[LP]

I would bet both testy satchels that supporters have way more attachment / sentimentality to certain players than the MC. It is simply impossible for outsiders to have the knowledge required.

While I agree, we are too experienced in the Carlton ways of the past to plainly accept that our MC could ignore external influences.

For me I have to continually question who runs the club, the football department or the Marketing and Executive division?

I see improvements under Cook but I also see the very recent past and how many remain, for example how we felt that we needed to kibosh SOS to either get control or to appear to have control. It looks like nobody had the necessaries to stand up to the legend so they went The Game of Thrones route!

[townsendcalling]

Looks like Paddy Dow is Sub again!  (Won't be Young, Can't be Ed, shouldn't be a debutante!!)

[Baggers]

In: David Cuningham, Lachie Fogarty, Marc Pittonet, Nic Newman

Out: Ed Curnow (Omitted), Jack Silvagni (Omitted), Jesse Motlop (Omitted), Lewis Young (Omitted), Paddy Dow (Omitted)

Emerg:  Ed Curnow, Lewis Young, Jaxon Binns, Paddy Dow.

[PaulP]

While I agree, we are too experienced in the Carlton ways of the past to plainly accept that our MC could ignore external influences.

For me I have to continually question who runs the club, the football department or the Marketing and Executive division?

I see improvements under Cook but I also see the very recent past and how many remain, for example how we felt that we needed to kibosh SOS to either get control or to appear to have control. It looks like nobody had the necessaries to stand up to the legend so they went The Game of Thrones route!

I currently sit 4th on the total number of posts for the CSC. I am the last person to tell people not to have opinions, not to speculate etc. Whilst I can appreciate that a forum like this is not much different to blokes in a pub talking footy, the real problem that I have with it is the same problem I have with all social media. Firstly the reach is significantly greater than blokes in a pub (which brings with it problems), and secondly the de-legitimation of real knowledge and experience in favour of fake news is amplified, both in range and potential.