AFL Rd 18 2022 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Geelong

[Thryleon]

Im a bit more concerned by our MCG form to be honest.

The matches at the MCG have been the ones we have shown the patchiest form where we have played good footy for less than half the game (if that).

Against Geelong we went with them until they got some freebies, and then never looked likely which was the most frustrating part of it.

[Gointocarlton]

Here's a crazy stat I read, when Kennedy plays and gets 14 handballs, we are 9W-0L. When doesn't, we are 2W-4L.

[LP]

Wow, based on this he should get the sack today. Oh sorry forgot, its all part of the AFL's agenda to keep us out of the 8 and down the bottom of the ladder.

I think you have conflated and confused multiple different issues covering both off-field and on-field events into a single perspective. Whether you do that innocently or deliberately only you can know, but it is invalid to de-value multiple debates by conflating several issues into the single perspective, that's the sort of stuff the media do when they attempt to deride an opinion. There is a philosophical term used to describe that sort of tactic/error, whether it's innocent or deliberate, it is called an Association Fallacy.

Like it or not we as a club have an issue with 22, why that exists is a very separate debate but there is clearly a difference in how he officiates when he is part of our umpiring panel.

[Lods]

by EB1
I thought Cameron and Hawkins contributed to other goals as well which was the difference.
Geelong are playing a different game style now, I even saw Hawkins in the back pocket, the reliance on Dangerfield, Selwood etc is now over and more of their players are playing in a non traditional way and taking on more responsibility rather than relying on a couple of stars to ignite the rest..

I posted these stats in another thread pre-game last week.

Score involvements

Curnow 7.4
McKay 6.4

Cameron 7.8
Hawkins 8.2

The difference here is probably in some part  due to the fact that Geelong are producing a few more scoring opportunities.

Goal Assists

Curnow 0.4
McKay 0.3

Cameron  0.8
Hawkins 1.2

I put some of the difference down to the fact that Geelong have had more scoring opportunities, but the real takeaway is that Cameron and Hawkins are a big influence in those scoring opportunities
The real strength of the Geelong forwards is their contribution to other goals.

https://www.afl.com.au/news/798737/nine-...how-to-win

5. There's more to goals than kicking them
The 'goalkicking gunfight at the 'G' may have seemed an anticlimax with eight goals spread between Jeremy Cameron, Tom Hawkins, Charlie Curnow and Harry McKay, but it's the hidden statistics that show the difference between the pairs. The Cats duo combined for 20 score involvements, making sure goals were being kicked no matter whose boot the ball came off, while the two Blues totalled just nine. So far this season Hawkins and Cameron have totalled 33 goal assists compared to Curnow and McKay's 10. As good as the Carlton combo is, their Geelong counterparts know how to share the spoils up forward just a little bit better. - Howard Kimber

[Gointocarlton]

I think you have conflated and confused multiple different issues covering both off-field and on-field events into a single perspective. Whether you do that innocently or deliberately only you can know, but it is invalid to de-value multiple debates by conflating several issues into the single perspective, that's the sort of stuff the media do when they attempt to deride an opinion. There is a philosophical term used to describe that sort of tactic/error, whether it's innocent or deliberate, it is called an Association Fallacy.

Like it or not we as a club have an issue with 22, why that exists is a very separate debate but there is clearly a difference in how he officiates when he is part of our umpiring panel.

Soooooo? Too many big words for a dummy like me, just tell me why he hasn't been fired for all these deliberate bad calls against us? I love this bit: Like it or not we as a club have an issue with 22.
By the this you the CFC or the CSC?

[LP]

Soooooo?

Identifying the conflation makes the assertion there is a global FL agenda an absurdity.

Just because there are multiple individual examples of a prejudicial behaviour, won't automatically mean it is systematic or that identifying the examples has asserted that it is systematic.

The association that a unique and identifiable set of events can be combined to highlight a global conspiracy is a fallacy, it's Trumpesque.

( btw., What did you think of Donald allegedly having Ivana pushed down the stairs? )

[Milhanna13]

Geelong are very good at pushing the boundaries,

As were the great Hawks sides.  As were the Tigs (still are, but they arent quite good enough to get away with it anymore).

All the little things - like, holding onto the footy that second longer, when you give away a free,  keeping a guy down in a tackle for an extra beat,  crimping the mark,  holding off the footy a ball ups.... they all add to the extra pressure, but only the good teams are allowed to get away with them.   

umpires arent biased, but they do get influenced by reputation.    selwood can do what he likes, and never get penalised - doc fights for a ball with danger, and gets pinged 50 for it - all due to reputation.

[Milhanna13]

Geelong mids were holding ours before they even got the ball, while theirs managed to get the ball out, somehow or another (not many of these were remotely like legal disposals, but I'm not going there).
Cripps was well held, and I mean that literally.

I really dont understand how this is allowed to keep happening.  Every game that Cripps is "down" - you watch the replay, and see him being held, with 2 hands, off the footy.  he will get 1 or 2 frees, but compared to the 50 times they get away with it, then the tactic works...  bliscavs played well, but jeez he was allowed to just turn and face cripps and do whatever he liked at a number of stoppages.    and the number of times we would gather the footy and be tackled "as we took possession", or was it just a little before....

and, did we get a single HTB all night??  cats players being spun 360 before they disposed, taking a couple of steps but apparently no prior and as mentioned above - just slinging the ball out of a tackle,  all allowed.  again, reputation helps - liam stocker aint umpired the same way as joel selwood

[pew2]

our aim this year was to make the finals (lucky teams below us losing),i wouldn't worry about our forward line  our biggest problem is defence ,we need to find some express players that run from hbf. 

[RiverRat]

That 22 is a real problem for us, he even rules against us from remote distances! I suspect someone at our club must be asking a few questions today, because the difference in the umpiring stands out like a sore thumb! This season it seems worse than before. For example, Cripps can have his head ripped off and 22 won't budge, but if Cripps even dusts an opponent's hairdo 22 won't hesitate to blow the whistle. It must be infuriating for our players, it's not the free being paid it's the frees not being paid that are the problem. I thought Leigh Fisher was pretty harsh on us, but 22 takes it to a new level!
[/quote]

Ever since he has arrived on the scene, he seems to have been setting his sights on replacing Razor Ray as the most (over) officious umpire.  Where Ray used to sprint in to IMPOSE himself, this guy always seems to run in and POSE himself.

I doubt that he has a bias against us but I wouldn't be surprised if he disproportionately rules against the less experienced teams because players on those teams are often less subtle in how they go about their business.