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There is a lot of posturing about Australias role in this, but we are small fry in the scheme of things. This is more about EU geopolitics and Brexit than anything to do with Australia.
We are simply a tool for the UK in this case.
Whether or not either deal was good or bad for Australia is neither here nor there in this case. It might be what we are focussing on, but when you detach the emotion from it, we have torn up one sub deal and signed another for a very similar outcome.
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11-03-2021, 10:25 PM
(This post was last modified: 11-03-2021, 10:52 PM by capcom.)
(11-03-2021, 10:13 PM)Thryleon link Wrote:Whether or not either deal was good or bad for Australia is neither here nor there in this case. It might be what we are focussing on, but when you detach the emotion from it, we have torn up one sub deal and signed another for a very similar outcome.
There was a third option ... and it should have been pursued
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(11-03-2021, 10:13 PM)Thryleon link Wrote:There is a lot of posturing about Australias role in this, but we are small fry in the scheme of things. This is more about EU geopolitics and Brexit than anything to do with Australia.
We are simply a tool for the UK in this case.
Whether or not either deal was good or bad for Australia is neither here nor there in this case. It might be what we are focussing on, but when you detach the emotion from it, we have torn up one sub deal and signed another for a very similar outcome.
The french subs were to be diesel powered, the new deal provides for nuclear powered vessels intended to support different strategies and goals wrt China. Be interesting to see when these new subs can actually be delivered and what we will do in the meantime. Collins Class?
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11-03-2021, 11:57 PM
(This post was last modified: 11-04-2021, 12:04 AM by LP.)
(11-03-2021, 11:13 PM)cookie2 date Wrote:The french subs were to be diesel powered, the new deal provides for nuclear powered vessels intended to support different strategies and goals wrt China. Be interesting to see when these new subs can actually be delivered and what we will do in the meantime. Collins Class? That is an issue voters must take up with our own politicians, they basically consigned us to a decade or two of limbo! I've heard beyond 2035 probably 2050.
Too many green nerds get elected that believe the Chinese or North Koreans will respect the Oz Qi or Feng Shui when they start to run out of resources at home, they tell us we don't need submarines or fighter jets we need diplomacy and a nice cup of green tea!
Because as you know, those regimes have demonstrated such a high value and respect for life in their own backyard, so we can trust them to respect our safe space and sovereignty! : 
![[Image: images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQtr-vs09KwFKnQ7F5hApi...A&usqp=CAU]](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQtr-vs09KwFKnQ7F5hApi-qiiBw2szZihxbA&usqp=CAU)
As a side note, given how quickly Macron went cap in hand to the USA or UK, who's side do you think he'd take if there was a crunch choice between Oz and China? Yet we expect him to honour thy Antipodeans!
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"Ruck, ruck, ruck, ruck ....... Ruck, ruck, ruck, ruck"
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The French have had nuclear subs for around 40 years and nuclear ballistic missile subs for around 25 years. The Australian Government made a deal for a non-nuclear variant of one of the French nuclear subs.
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(11-10-2021, 03:28 AM)Mav link Wrote:The French have had nuclear subs for around 40 years and nuclear ballistic missile subs for around 25 years. The Australian Government made a deal for a non-nuclear variant of one of the French nuclear subs. The French like their Nuclear power, they have 50-60 Nuclear plants and run their grid themselves rather than selling it off to privates. Europe of course is a synced system but France are the big player and pride themselves on being experts in the field...
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(11-03-2021, 11:57 PM)LP link Wrote:That is an issue voters must take up with our own politicians, they basically consigned us to a decade or two of limbo! I've heard beyond 2035 probably 2050.
Too many green nerds get elected that believe the Chinese or North Koreans will respect the Oz Qi or Feng Shui when they start to run out of resources at home, they tell us we don't need submarines or fighter jets we need diplomacy and a nice cup of green tea!
Because as you know, those regimes have demonstrated such a high value and respect for life in their own backyard, so we can trust them to respect our safe space and sovereignty! :
As a side note, given how quickly Macron went cap in hand to the USA or UK, who's side do you think he'd take if there was a crunch choice between Oz and China? Yet we expect him to honour thy Antipodeans!
There may well be a problem if Macron had to choose between Australia and China.
Of greater concern to me is counting on the USA in the future to stand by its commitments to Australia.
Let's say that after an 18 month review we decide that the USA has a nuclear sub suitable for our purposes and we sign a contract to purchase x number of subs. Let's also say that Biden's current slump in popularity continues, giving Trump enough encouragement to stand again for election.
If he were to win, do you think the USA would look after our interests?
Given his past foreign affairs performances, he would go for whatever country made him a buck and would tear up a contract with Australia in the blink of an eye.
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