Teague - Selecting Battlers over talent.

[ElwoodBlues1]

I'm with Krud, the reason why Cottrell, Gibbons, Parks, Newnes, Owies etc have got games is because those highly rated other players like SPS, Setterfield, Obrien, Dow, Cuningham and Williamson(yes later pick I know) have been putrid, both in skill, in effort and sticking their gonads into places where they might get hurt.
Teague cant trust those higher rated players to turn up and play with any intent or passion......its that simple.

[DJC]

I think that was tactical and it may have actually worked better had we got it in low, and quicker than we did.  We stuffed around with it, but when your opposition is tall, you should have the ground balls easily won and we did but only for about 10 mins.

There was only De Koning in the wings waiting to come in, and given the way Levi and Harry get in each others way, Im not sure of the merit of playing another tall who is going to get in the way a little bit.

The short forwardline was worth going with given we were a bit out heighted forward.

Their tall forwards didnt do much of note, and the weather was supposed to be a bit more wild and wet than it turned out to be which might have been the more calculated way to win the game.

The proof is in the pudding Thry.  If filling our forward line with smaller players against a team with two of the best intercept marks in the business, and with Gawn's ability to drop back into defence, was tactical, we need a new tactician 

Of their taller forwards, McDonald was close to best on the ground (8 AFLCA votes), Brown dragged Weitering and/or Jones up the ground and he and Weideman took marks inside 50.  While he's not a tall, Fritsch is taller than most of our forwards and he bagged 3 goals. 

We desperately needed a third tall who could lead up, keep May and Lever honest and, most importantly, convert their chances.  Moving Jones forward at the death was too little, too late.

I'm with Krud, the reason why Cottrell, Gibbons, Parks, Newnes, Owies etc have got games is because those highly rated other players like SPS, Setterfield, Obrien, Dow, Cuningham and Williamson(yes later pick I know) have been putrid, both in skill, in effort and sticking their gonads into places where they might get hurt.
Teague cant trust those higher rated players to turn up and play with any intent or passion......its that simple.

I don't think it is that simple ... and it's the coach's job to ensure that players play with intent and passion - not that I think that those players don't.  It's more a case of playing blokes where they're most suited and giving them licence to play their natural game.  Stocker wasn't outstanding but his move into the midfield showed that he has the ability to play there each week.  Will that signal the end of his career as a defender?  I doubt it.  Same with Samo.  He has been played out of position and was a different player when he was able to run through the midfield.

Willo was a fan favourite because he had a crack but now he's on the outer because his enthusiasm overrides his decision-making.  Good coaching should have had that sorted (our defensive structure, or lack thereof, doesn't help).  Parks has laid a decent bump and a good tackle but his decision-making and lack of ability have exposed him (again, our defensive structure doesn't help).  A bit more experience under his belt and decent development and he could be a player but he's not in our best seven defenders at this stage of his career.

[DJC]

I don't think you can play Plowman, Saad, Docherty, Williams and Newman in the same team.

Not unless at least one of them is in the midfield.

[Thryleon]

The proof is in the pudding Thry.  If filling our forward line with smaller players against a team with two of the best intercept marks in the business, and with Gawn's ability to drop back into defence, was tactical, we need a new tactician 

Of their taller forwards, McDonald was close to best on the ground (8 AFLCA votes), Brown dragged Weitering and/or Jones up the ground and he and Weideman took marks inside 50.  While he's not a tall, Fritsch is taller than most of our forwards and he bagged 3 goals. 

We desperately needed a third tall who could lead up, keep May and Lever honest and, most importantly, convert their chances.  Moving Jones forward at the death was too little, too late.

I don't think it is that simple ... and it's the coach's job to ensure that players play with intent and passion - not that I think that those players don't.  It's more a case of playing blokes where they're most suited and giving them licence to play their natural game.  Stocker wasn't outstanding but his move into the midfield showed that he has the ability to play there each week.  Will that signal the end of his career as a defender?  I doubt it.  Same with Samo.  He has been played out of position and was a different player when he was able to run through the midfield.

Willo was a fan favourite because he had a crack but now he's on the outer because his enthusiasm overrides his decision-making.  Good coaching should have had that sorted (our defensive structure, or lack thereof, doesn't help).  Parks has laid a decent bump and a good tackle but his decision-making and lack of ability have exposed him (again, our defensive structure doesn't help).  A bit more experience under his belt and decent development and he could be a player but he's not in our best seven defenders at this stage of his career.

Im not sure there were many other options on hand.  Last few weeks in the VFL our tallest players forward have been 184cm until De koning returned.  Playing him first up against a side sitting 8-0 was probably not going to end well, particularly if we needed the run to try and get on top via other means.

It all changes if we got torrential rain.  We didnt.  In that equation though, he picked the winning strategy.  THAT is the point.

[dodge]

Of their taller forwards, McDonald was close to best on the ground (8 AFLCA votes)

I reckon McDonald enjoys playing us...

[DJC]

Im not sure there were many other options on hand.  Last few weeks in the VFL our tallest players forward have been 184cm until De koning returned.  Playing him first up against a side sitting 8-0 was probably not going to end well, particularly if we needed the run to try and get on top via other means.

It all changes if we got torrential rain.  We didnt.  In that equation though, he picked the winning strategy.  THAT is the point.

I'm sorry Thry but picking a team in the hope of torrential rain is fanciful.  We could have had Noah's flood and May and Lever would still have knocked up getting intercept possessions.

Yes, injuries have reduced our taller options but Kennedy is 188cm, Carroll is 187cm, and Honey is 184cm.  Even Williamson, at 190cm, could have played as a half forward and forced a match up with a tall defender.

[Raydan]

I'm with Krud, the reason why Cottrell, Gibbons, Parks, Newnes, Owies etc have got games is because those highly rated other players like SPS, Setterfield, Obrien, Dow, Cuningham and Williamson(yes later pick I know) have been putrid, both in skill, in effort and sticking their gonads into places where they might get hurt.
Teague cant trust those higher rated players to turn up and play with any intent or passion......its that simple.

and this is what's wrong with selection. I'm sure if you put anybody who a Carlton member out there they would have passion, but passion doesn't win you game. Ball control and skill does. Most of the season we've had Newnes on one wing and Cotrell on the other, neither gives you more than 12-15 touches a game, sure Cottrell runs around all game long, but is tirelessly predictable as he runs in straight lines. How can we win with inept wings, when the game has progress into a play on game and a quality wing is very important.

We have O'Brien who has proven that he is a two way runner, and a much better kick than Cottrell, but when he gets a low disposal game, he's dropped, in fact he's played two game over the past two seasons, hardly a fair go for a former pick 10 to prove his worth.

That being said his papers may be stamped, but if that's the case why didn't we trade O'Brien last season when Collingwood came knocking for him?

I like Owies and think he has something, but Gibbons doesn't play with passion and his games this season have been poor, Parks is not an AFL Level player yet and possibly won't ever be, but because he has passion he gets a game? No wonder we're at the bottom of the ladder again.

[capcom]

That being said his papers may be stamped, but if that's the case why didn't we trade O'Brien last season when Collingwood came knocking for him?

Seriously?  We turned that down?

[Raydan]

Seriously?  We turned that down?

Reported to be a late third rounder

[ElwoodBlues1]

and this is what's wrong with selection. I'm sure if you put anybody who a Carlton member out there they would have passion, but passion doesn't win you game. Ball control and skill does. Most of the season we've had Newnes on one wing and Cotrell on the other, neither gives you more than 12-15 touches a game, sure Cottrell runs around all game long, but is tirelessly predictable as he runs in straight lines. How can we win with inept wings, when the game has progress into a play on game and a quality wing is very important.

We have O'Brien who has proven that he is a two way runner, and a much better kick than Cottrell, but when he gets a low disposal game, he's dropped, in fact he's played two game over the past two seasons, hardly a fair go for a former pick 10 to prove his worth.

That being said his papers may be stamped, but if that's the case why didn't we trade O'Brien last season when Collingwood came knocking for him?

I like Owies and think he has something, but Gibbons doesn't play with passion and his games this season have been poor, Parks is not an AFL Level player yet and possibly won't ever be, but because he has passion he gets a game? No wonder we're at the bottom of the ladder again.

Cottrell is consistent with his attack on the ball and chasing/tackling.
Agree he doesn't get enough ball or hurt with his kicking etc.
O'brien isn't consistent with his attack on the ball or chasing etc, ditto for SPS.
Dow attacks the ball ok but his skills are poor,
Gibbons is a better package than the others but is small and is your depth handy Indian but won't ever be a chief.
Owies..not sure.

Too many light bodied non contested types in an era of contested high speed footy where pressure is king.
Richmond said they wouldn't have picked O'brien because he didn't fit their profile which is a kind way of saying he isnt hard enough... We just don't seem to be able to draft enough players who are complete enough in the important areas of the game.