9/11 Debate

[kruddler]

In the building I'd imagine, did you expect it to bounce off the wall and land in the front garden?

I expected it to scratch the wall at least and maybe leave some evidence that they existed.

There was some overhead shots taken straight after the crash which i'm trying to track down....but can't.
It gives a clear idea on how improbably the story is.

[Klingus]

Who said there was no wreckage?

Thanks for the reply GC. Yep, the FBI released photos, but look at the crash footage and photos of the fire fighters trying to put the blaze out. Look at the hole. Wouldn't there be damage on either side where the wings impacted? Where are the wings or the tail?

[Mav]

Again from Popular Mechanics 2020 article:

Big Plane, Small Holes
Claim: Two holes were visible in the Pentagon immediately after the attack: a 75-ft.-wide entry hole in the building's exterior wall, and a 16-ft.-wide hole in Ring C, the Pentagon's middle ring. Conspiracy theorists claim both holes are far too small to have been made by a Boeing 757. "How does a plane 125 ft. wide and 155 ft. long fit into a hole which is only 16 ft. across?" asks reopen911.org, a Web site "dedicated to discovering the bottom line truth to what really occurred on September 11, 2001."

The truth is of even less importance to French author Thierry Meyssan, whose baseless assertions are fodder for even mainstream European and Middle Eastern media.

In his book The Big Lie, Meyssan concludes that the Pentagon was struck by a satellite-guided missile—part of an elaborate U.S. military coup. "This attack," he writes, "could only be committed by United States military personnel against other U.S. military personnel."

FACT: When American Airlines Flight 77 hit the Pentagon's exterior wall, Ring E, it created a hole approximately 75 ft. wide, according to the ASCE Pentagon Building Performance Report.

The exterior facade collapsed about 20 minutes after impact, but ASCE based its measurements of the original hole on the number of first-floor support columns that were destroyed or damaged. Computer simulations confirmed the findings.

Why wasn't the hole as wide as a 757's 124-ft.-10-in. wingspan? A crashing jet doesn't punch a cartoon-like outline of itself into a reinforced concrete building, says ASCE team member Mete Sozen, a professor of structural engineering at Purdue University. In this case, one wing hit the ground; the other was sheared off by the force of the impact with the Pentagon's load-bearing columns, explains Sozen, who specializes in the behavior of concrete buildings. What was left of the plane flowed into the structure in a state closer to a liquid than a solid mass. "If you expected the entire wing to cut into the building," Sozen tells PM, "it didn't happen."

The tidy hole in Ring C was 12 ft. wide—not 16 ft. ASCE concludes it was made by the jet's landing gear, not by the fuselage.

There you go Karen.

[kruddler]

Thanks for the reply GC. Yep, the FBI released photos, but look at the crash footage and photos of the fire fighters trying to put the blaze out. Look at the hole. Wouldn't there be damage on either side where the wings impacted? Where are the wings or the tail?

This will help people understand what we are talking about.....
https://www.serendipity.li/wot/crash_site.htm
That link has plenty of photos from the day.



Before it collapsed....where did the plane go? Where is ANY wreckage? Why is the hole so small??

[kruddler]

Again from Popular Mechanics 2020 article:There you go Karen.

Yeah, nah.

Look at the link i posted with photos and tell me if you believe the story you just posted.

[Mav]

But Karen, if it was a cruise missile, surely the damage would have been far greater given those things have, you know, explosives?

[kruddler]

75 foot hole?



They are some HUGE windows if thats a 75 foot hole.

BTW, the pentagon is 77 foot high.

So....someone is telling porky pies!

[Lods]

Dunno. Don't pretend to know.

Do you think its above the american government to kill innocent people to further their own greedy desires though?

I think 9/11 is above them.

"The American Government" is a pretty all encompassing term.
Who are we talking about...George W, Republicans, CIA, Crazy Generals, Military Industrialists?

This is where I find it difficult.
The who and the why.

Who comes up with this idea?
It's not like one person could dream it up and carry it out.
Who's in the know.... who's excluded.
Dozens would need to be involved and that's only at the top end.
Hundreds when you take into account the implementation and cover up.
Does agent A have the trust of the planners and Agent B need to be kept in the dark.
It would take years of planning and preparation to make sure all the possible areas where things could be discovered were covered.

Why go to the trouble of killing thousands and traumatizing millions when you could get the same result....a population with vengeance in their hearts, with something of a much lower scale (blow up an embassy/ sink a destroyer).

The first Gulf war didn't require an attack on American citizens. They wouldn't have needed to crash planes into buildings to start a war on terror.

And what about the consequences for the planners and perpetrators if such an action was uncovered.
You would have to be supremely confident in your ability to maintain a cover-up.

Perhaps as much emphasis needs to be on questioning the motivation and logistics of such a plan rather than the physics.

[Gointocarlton]

I expected it to scratch the wall at least and maybe leave some evidence that they existed.

There was some overhead shots taken straight after the crash which i'm trying to track down....but can't.
It gives a clear idea on how improbably the story is.

This animation gives a pretty good summation of what happened.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVDdjLQkUV8

[kruddler]

The first Gulf war didn't require an attack on American citizens. They wouldn't have needed to crash planes into buildings to start a war on terror.

As i said earlier, i'm not really into that side of things. I'm more about the evidence. The government has said they have planned similar in the past, thats enough of that rabbit hole for me.

But...on the above....why did America invade for the second time? WMDs! Did they find any?
Somehow, they managed to blame Al Qaeda and Afghansitan on 9/11 and turn that into an excuse to reignite the gulf war.

"Oh, well.....while we are there....."