Community Cup Carlton vs St. Kilda

[kruddler]

It does start at the top though right?

A good president finds, appoints and supports a good CEO and they both do the same for coaches, recruiters, list managers, etc.
The crapstorm around SOS departure is just the most visible symptom but the root problem at the club has been attracting really genuine gun person as President.

That's my view on it anyway. We're always going to be pushing crap up a hill until we are able to appoint a decent president.

Sure.
But off-field we are going as best as we've been in the last 2 decades.
On field we are expected to have one of our best years for close to a decade.

So.....do we need to sack the president or not?

[cookie2]

Is our President really  "the top" though? I suspect not and that others are really pulling the strings.

[Gointocarlton]

Is our President really  "the top" though? I suspect not and that others are really pulling the strings.

Certainly the case with the SOS sacking. As SOS said, it would have been fine if the reasons for not continuing with him that was discussed between him and the Richmond bloke were made public. Instead, he chose to put out a BS story which has put peoples noses out of joint within the club (as I am a led to believe). Whats done is done now, I don't trust the bloke. As for the prez, what I like about the bloke is that he is seldom seen or heard. If you see him at a function or at the footy, is very approachable and good to talk to.

[PaulP]

Too many external power brokers with board connections, and long standing board members like Pratt, Mathieson and LoGiudice who come from a mom-and-pop business background, and thus lack the skills required to run a public business. This has been addressed to a small degree with recent appointments, but those three really need to go IMO.

The Judge seems like a nice guy, and i'm sure he's a genuine Carlton man and wants what is best for the club, but I'm not sure he's President material. It's difficult to get the balance right - you don't want an autocrat who doesn't listen to anyone and brooks no interference, but you also don't want a softie who rolls over and is easily swayed. I think he is more of the latter. The board's flip flopping between young buck and old fart with coaches, and the the constant hiring and firing of same, is disturbing IMO. And the Judge has been involved with the last three or four.

[keogh]

So the prez is the problem?

I thought it was the crap list?

I thought it was recruiting?

How long before its the coach??

OK, lets play.
In 2015, we had a bad year, sacked Malthouse and installed Bolton.
In 2016, we went 7 and 15 with a percentage of 79.3%
In 2016, Richmond went 8 and 14 with a percentage of 79.5%.
We played Tigers in R1 (Boltons first game as coach of carlton) and we lost by 9 points.
Swap that result and we finish above the tigers.

People were calling for Hardwicks head. He was nearly sacked.

Tigers kept him, despite being (barely) above what was a wooden spoon club the year before.

Did they have a crap list?
That same list has won 3 of the next 4 grand finals.

It was not the list....despite some saying it was.
Are you part of the 'some' now?
If we win 3 of the next 4.....is it still a crap list?

There will come a time where we stop trying to blame everything that came before us, focus on where we actually are and accept it.

I get it, you are skeptical. You have seen it all before. If it angers you so much, don't watch.
Maybe, just maybe, the tide is turning right before your eyes.

In any work place if it isn’t meeting it’s targets the reasons start from the top.
What you fail to recognize is what I said about 9 of Richmond’s premiership 22 not coming from top 50 picks in the AFL draft.
Name me the players SOS recruited from non top 50 picks in his 4 years before he cracked the craps and screwed off
Or conversely name me all the spuds he recruited from other AFL clubs who are gone
It would be a long post
Who gave SOS the job
The board because he was a mate of LoGiudice
Now Austin has cashed all his chips in by giving up some picks to get Williams who is ok Saad who is overrated because he doesn’t play tight enough and Fogarty who has done nothing
Add Martin to the mix who is a super squib the most overrated player in the comp who was on 1 million last year and the McGovern trade which is on the path to being one of the worst trades in the last 30 years particularly if McAdam continues his form.
And all Blues supporters should have an interest in Kreuger at Geelong who we gave up for Setterfield not to mention a pick in the 20s
We still have “ the big banana “ theory proud strong and upfront at the club which all stems from the out of touch LoGiudice Pratt’s Mathiesons and Judd’s of this world.
I left TC temporarily
I will leave this site temporarily
This is the year we make our mark
Right!
We have bought in big
My view is our list has more holes than Swiss cheese and you have to recruit damm well to win flag not recruit overrated players with free agency and stupid trades
If you look at what Richmond have done over the last 6 or so years in their recruiting they have
Picked up so many terrific players like Baker, Broad,Short with late picks or rookie picks from virtually nowhere. Look at their list . There is a heap of them. It’s got nothing to do with what they were like ten years ago, 6 years ago. Martin wouldn’t have one Norm Smith if it wasn’t for guys like Broad etc. I say it every year. The best bottom 6 players on Grand Final day win you the Flag Do your own research.
Marion Pickett was easily the best player in the country outside the AFLand we could have picked him up for nothing yet we chose a spud like Deluca.
I am convinced that success now is largely due to List Management and who are your recruiters not so much the coaches .
SOSs recruiting was crap overall.
With what Austin and Brodie did last year I can assume they think the list is up to it and we just need that added pace .
What SOS did at the end of 2018 which was our worst year on record was inexcusable in getting McGovern and Setterfield for 3 picks in the 20s and giving up McAdam who looks good and Kreuger who with Taylor gone and a good run with injuries might be ok too.
It’s narrow minded recruiting
But let’s see how 2021 pans out
Either way I’ll be back to eat humble pie on both sites or you and a few others can tell skeptics like me why we have been so average for so long.

[kruddler]

[member=128]keogh[/member]
Too much to go through there, so I'll stick to this.
Your issue is sos hasn't got enough 50+ picks on our list doing well??

There are a few reasons for that...
1. He hasn't had many 50+ picks at draft day because he is always trading up for bigger picks.
2. He trades away decent blokes, and gets great picks back, sometimes throwing in those late picks to get stuff done.
3. Fwiw....
Jack Martin came via psd.....a 50+ pick
Tom Williamson was pick 61
Jack Silvagni was 54?
There have only been a handful of others or rookie picks outside of that.

Would you prefer that we kept Bryce Gibbs?
Or would you prefer the 2 first round picks we got back?
Would you prefer Zachary tuohy? Or the first round pick we got back?
Would you prefer Lachie Henderson? Or the first round pick at got back?

We maximised our draft hand with very little trade value initially. Looking at how many high draft picks we have on our list now (either drafting ourselves or via trade) and compare that to pre sos days.

Any way you slice it, our list is better.
Is it good enough?  Well see. Hopefully we can get some talent out of the medical room!

[capcom]

Now Austin has cashed all his chips in by giving up some picks to get Williams

News to me

[Professer E]

I was actually more impressed with the kids in the twos than many running around in the ones.

I know it's a different standard but the likes of Carroll,  Stocker Gibbons and Owies showed a lot more future upside than SPS, Cunningham and LOB,  who just showed more of what we've seen before IMHO.

[kruddler]

News to me

Goes back to what i was saying before.

He takes a somewhat valid hypothesis and adds so much Mayo to it that it can't help but be wrong.

Fyi keogh, Williams was a free agent that cost zero picks.

[capcom]

... And bagging Fogarty?  He's had what, five minutes at the club?