Best 22 in 21

[DJC]

Great post Crash!

I wonder if our MC would be brave enough to pick the 22 best able to take on our opposition each week.  That would mean Pittonet one week, De Koning the next, Marchbank in for Samo one week and Newman in for Marchy the week after.

That would mean a best 15 or 16 that are walk up starts and nine or ten who are in contention each week.

[Thryleon]

Just a reminder that hawthorn won a flag with a bunch of also ran key defenders.

Brian Lake was the only proper key position defender they had aside from chip Frawley.

[DJC]

Just a reminder that hawthorn won a flag with a bunch of also ran key defenders.

Brian Lake was the only proper key position defender they had aside from chip Frawley.

Lake did win the Norm Smith Medal and he did have a few spuds like Hodge, Gibson, Birchall, Stratton, Mitchell and Burgoyne helping out.  Don't forget that Gibson had a great record against Buddy Franklin.  Frawley was a bit player in their 2015 premiership.

[Gointocarlton]

Great post Crash, superb in fact. One of the things for me is that I think Stocker may need to form part of the midfield group. The idea of playing him in defence "to learn" the game doesn't make a lot of sense to me (but what would I know). He is a hard nosed, uncompromising mid first and foremost and we moved heaven and earth to secure him. Play him in the guts, his attributes are exactly what we need there.

[Thryleon]

Lake did win the Norm Smith Medal and he did have a few spuds like Hodge, Gibson, Birchall, Stratton, Mitchell and Burgoyne helping out.  Don't forget that Gibson had a great record against Buddy Franklin.  Frawley was a bit player in their 2015 premiership.

yes but how many of them are key position players?
Gibson 189cm
Stratton 189cm
Birchall 193cm

The rest are a similar sized bunch of midgets.  We don't need to find the next big thing to help out our defense.  We wouldn't want to go in without Liam and Jacob very frequently but hawthorn managed to win 3 flags in a row because they had consistency in their lineup, consistency in how players played roles, and a bit of luck (which all successful teams need) that breakdowns were few and far between.  There were quite a few unsung heros in their teams.  We have a few players that fit that bill if they could stop breaking down.

The point in making is that without Brian Lake hawthorn were a team of short defenders and we are not.

[kruddler]

Good work Crash.

I've run into similar problems with picking a best 22, and as you eluded to, it all starts with the ruck.

TDK or Pittonet.....or both?
If both, do we have room for Casboult?
If we play Casboult, then surely we can't play Charlie, Harry and Mitch as well.
We might even struggle to play Charlie and Harry with Casboult.....and both rucks.

If we can't fit in either Casboult or McGovern and we get an injury down back, what cover do we have (mid-game?).

No matter which way you slice it, there will be AFL level 'taller players' who cannot fit into our best 22 each week.

I reckon we have a similar problem with our smaller defenders.
Pick 6 players to go with Jones/Weitering to play as defenders...
Docherty, Newman, Plowman, Marchbank, Saad, SPS, Willo, Stocker....

You can see that to fit them in you are already using wing/bench spots (to get to 6) and you still can't fit that list entire list of defenders in.

These teams are all based on previous years efforts too.
But what about a kid coming in and earning/demanding a spot?
What about if any/all of Dow, LoB, Kemp, Fogarty breaking the door down?? Who makes way then?


Yes, injuries will always 'help' us pick a best 22.....but i reckon we have a best 30....with a few more players who could easily play AFL outside of that.

Teague likes to have a stable team....which has its advantages.
However, personally i think you should always pick your team that matches up on the opposition best....without handicapping yourself in the process. With that in mind, we have a lot of flexibility with our team selections and overall team 'style'.
We can play supertall. (pick TDK, Pittonet, Casboult, Harry, Charlie, Jones, Weitering....Mcgovern)
We can play bigger bodied. (pick Cripps, Setterfield, Ed, Williams, Kennedy, Silvagni...)
We can play smaller and quicker (Pick Dow, LoB, Owies, Honey....

We can change our team, and our game plan, on a week to week basis to suit our opponents.

[cookie2]

I am keen to see how TDK develops this year. Once he has reached the minimum maturity level needed I think he will greatly reduce our present need to keep Casboult on the list. Levi is mainly there as  insurance for now imo.

[DJC]

yes but how many of them are key position players?
Gibson 189cm
Stratton 189cm
Birchall 193cm

The rest are a similar sized bunch of midgets.  We don't need to find the next big thing to help out our defense.  We wouldn't want to go in without Liam and Jacob very frequently but hawthorn managed to win 3 flags in a row because they had consistency in their lineup, consistency in how players played roles, and a bit of luck (which all successful teams need) that breakdowns were few and far between.  There were quite a few unsung heros in their teams.  We have a few players that fit that bill if they could stop breaking down.

The point in making is that without Brian Lake hawthorn were a team of short defenders and we are not.

Some blokes play taller.  Gibson certainly did and in years gone by we had Doull (185cm) and Dean (186cm) as key defenders.  And then there's Marchbank at 193cm who struggles to compete against the bigger forwards.  We played McGovern  (191cm) in defence against Brisbane last season and their tall forwards had a picnic against him.

Most teams these days have at least two very large key forwards, and probably a second ruck, in their forward line.  Jones and Weitering can match it with any of them, Plowman (191cm) is competitive against even the tallest, but then our next option is Casboult.

We do have plenty of depth with our medium and small defenders but we will struggle if we lose a key defender or ruckman.  As much as I think that he could be a waste of space, Oscar McDonald (196cm) would have to be leading the race for the last spot on our list.

[Thryleon]

Some blokes play taller.  Gibson certainly did and in years gone by we had Doull (185cm) and Dean (186cm) as key defenders.  And then there's Marchbank at 193cm who struggles to compete against the bigger forwards.  We played McGovern  (191cm) in defence against Brisbane last season and their tall forwards had a picnic against him.

Most teams these days have at least two very large key forwards, and probably a second ruck, in their forward line.  Jones and Weitering can match it with any of them, Plowman (191cm) is competitive against even the tallest, but then our next option is Casboult.

We do have plenty of depth with our medium and small defenders but we will struggle if we lose a key defender or ruckman.  As much as I think that he could be a waste of space, Oscar McDonald (196cm) would have to be leading the race for the last spot on our list.

My other point is, that its all match up dependent.

Marchbank can do most but the tallest.  Ditto Mcgovern and like you said Plowman.

Thing is, if we can restrict the number of looks opposition forwards get it wont matter anyway.

Hawthorn had a team defense and thats why they got away with smaller talls in defense.  Gibson was an interceptor, not a man marker.  If Marchbank can play that role for us, it will be fine.

[DJC]

My other point is, that its all match up dependent.

Marchbank can do most but the tallest.  Ditto Mcgovern and like you said Plowman.

Thing is, if we can restrict the number of looks opposition forwards get it wont matter anyway.

Hawthorn had a team defense and thats why they got away with smaller talls in defense.  Gibson was an interceptor, not a man marker.  If Marchbank can play that role for us, it will be fine.

I would be very happy if we tweaked our defence each week so that we match up well against every opposition forward line.  My main concern is that our team defence often meant that Weitering or Jones found themselves minding a small forward (which is fine) and Samo, Simmo or Willo were trying to stop a gorilla (which is far from fine).  Hopefully, the backline coach will have sorted that out and our defenders can switch back to their preferred opponent ASAP.

I'm not convinced that McGovern can take a key forward.  He was exposed in that role against Brisbane and I think his forte in defence is intercept marking.  Of course, his performance may just have been a continuation of his poor form and he could do well forward or back this season.