The Climate, Environment and Energy Thread

[LP]

Eat less meat because it's good for the planet seems to me to be an unscientific attempt to force a vegan diet on naturally omnivorous humanity.

The way society is heading, I think the above slightly adjusted version is probably the most relevant!

[DJC]

The way society is heading, I think the above slightly adjusted version is probably the most relevant!

In fact, it should be waste less!

[LP]

Not sure what to make out of the current debates around COP28, if I take anything out of this it is probably that the politics of reporting is dragging us all into the mire!

In summary the reporting seems to be;

- It's only green if it's my green, your green doesn't count.

- One solution fits all, my solution.

- It's everybody else's fault.

- No matter what is really happening around the globe, don't mention the "N" word.

Because the various green solutions are all cutting each other's throat trying to be the big player in the town, "N" is now back fairly and squarely in the plans from all the big economies. It will screw a country like us over, because we'll develop renewable technologies that need export scale sales to make ends meet, and there will be no major economy market left to sell them to!

If China, USA, Germany(EU), Japan and India go "N", it's pretty much the death knell for every local major green energy technology initiative I know of!

[ElwoodBlues1]

Not sure what to make out of the current debates around COP28, if I take anything out of this it is probably that the politics of reporting is dragging us all into the mire!

In summary the reporting seems to be;

- It's only green if it's my green, your green doesn't count.

- One solution fits all, my solution.

- It's everybody else's fault.

- No matter what is really happening around the globe, don't mention the "N" word.

Because the various green solutions are all cutting each other's throat trying to be the big player in the town, "N" is now back fairly and squarely in the plans from all the big economies. It will screw a country like us over, because we'll develop renewable technologies that need export scale sales to make ends meet, and there will be no major economy market left to sell them to!

If China, USA, Germany(EU), Japan and India go "N", it's pretty much the death knell for every local major green energy technology initiative I know of!

Too late...China have 21 new Nuke Power Stations underway or semi completed and India are second place with around eight.
China will more than likely have to build our Nuke plants if we ever went that way given we would need infrastructure upgrades as well as multiple plant builds unless overseas companies like Brookfield stump up the money along with Cannon-Brookes and the like. With more Greens, Teal's and minor parties likely entering Parliament its unlikely though we would see Nuclear in Australia in the near to medium future..however with increased migration and push to grow the population its going to put more pressure on energy resources and with Natural Gas on nose in some states I cant see how a already stressed power grid system will cope with the extra load and even with upgrades/fixes the prices will only go up and make life harder for most unless we get a Government who will bite the bullet with Nuclear and risk political demise.

[LP]

................. I cant see how a already stressed power grid system will cope with the extra load and even with upgrades/fixes the prices will only go up and make like harder for most unless we get a Government who will bite the bullet with Nuclear and risk political demise.

Yep, for me it looks like we want to be selective with our learnings from recent history, we've completely discounted the farce that is the EU Energy grid and we are barrelling head long into crazy high energy prices.

The last time I was in the EU, I had a trip covering towns in France, Belgium, Germany, Switzerland and Austria. There were places where you could stand in one town and stare across a valley at another town paying 1800% more for it's energy.

I think when the subsidies go, the real subsidies not just the ones called a subsidy, things are really going to hit the fan.

Climate change is real, but there is no need to cut your own legs off to make things better!

[ElwoodBlues1]

Yep, for me it looks like we want to be selective with our learnings from recent history, we've completely discounted the farce that is the EU Energy grid and we are barrelling head long into crazy high energy prices.

The last time I was in the EU, I had a trip covering towns in France, Belgium, Germany and Austria. There were places where you could stand in one town and stare across a valley at another town paying 1800% more for it's energy.

I think when the subsidies go, the real subsidies not the ones called a subsidy, things are really going to hit the fan.

Climate change is real, but there is no need to cut your own legs off to make things better!

China pulled the subsidies on EV's and now they have paddocks of dumped worthless EV's as the public, taxi companies etc dumped cars that were only viable with Government assistance.
You could argue that some EU countries have a developed Nuclear system/grid but it hasnt led to utopia on the energy front and that the frameworks of the economy in those countries have more affect on prices than the cost of power generation.
Bit like a football team.....no use the forward line kicking goals if you are leaking more in the backline.....

[kruddler]

You want the public to be in favour of Nuclear, simply limit the power we are currently supplying.
A few rolling brown outs sold us 'we cant keep up with demands' and people will jump ship pretty quickly.

Unless it directly effects people, its too easy for them to turn a bline eye.

Force it into the publics face and miracles will happen.

[LP]

Force it into the publics face and miracles will happen.

This is exactly what happened in places like Germany and Japan, but why must we repeat the same mistakes, can't we learn without experiencing the pain?

Worse still, the pain gave rise to a new generation of political radicals, the toll from that will potentially end up costing far more than any thing we can debate about energy! There is a rising level of apathy and anarchy in these countries, with more and more of the population under fiscal duress, the disaffected are going to be the next generation of politicians.

[kruddler]

This is exactly what happened in places like Germany and Japan, but why must we repeat the same mistakes, can't we learn without experiencing the pain?

Worse still, the pain gave rise to a new generation of political radicals, the toll from that will potentially end up costing far more than any thing we can debate about energy! There is a rising level of apathy and anarchy in these countries, with more and more of the population under fiscal duress, the disaffected are going to be the next generation of politicians.

Its human nature.....but more so, its aussie culture.

'She'll be right'.......until its not.

[LP]

Its human nature.....but more so, its aussie culture.

'She'll be right'.......until its not.

Because they are struggling to make ends meet people are already making choices between food, heating, cooling, medical and socialising. If we get a heatwave and rolling blackouts it's a huge threat, especially if it's unpredicted and not managed, like a severe storm at just the wrong time.

Too many of the elderly already sit in front of electric fans without air conditioners or heaters, the power goes the fans stop, but the money they didn't have to spend on energy is lost anyway because the fridge and the freezer stop as well, the consequences are catastrophic to those who can least afford it.

The do-gooders will have you believe the price of renewables is just an inconvenience for a hot day or two, but far from it, it's not a price we have to pay and we don't have to punish societies most vulnerable for the sins or ignorance of the past. We can reduce CO2, and we do not have to do it through renewables.

As NSW and Vic shutdown the coal and gas, will residents there turn off the lights to keep SA safe and cool?

I read articles recently that pumped up SA and Tas as landmark examples of energy production, 90% of "SA produced energy" was from renewables, Tas was at 71% of it's "produced energy" being renewable, the problem is over the analysis period they consumed about 250% of what they produced, the balance to keep the lights on came via Vic or NSW from gas(And I assume some coal but I'm sure there is creative accounting!), there are stats and then there are stats!

Finally, the world doesn't care about us, we only become an example when they want us to be, we are a blip on the ocean, barely registering. Yet security wise the USA and UK know exactly what is at stake. Outside of China, Australia is the game for long term resources for energy and rare earths, unless of course we allow Brazil to scrape the Amazon bare of life. China in the meantime is playing dirty, we apparently use child indigenous labour to dig up our rare earths, and pollute and destroy the Great Barrier Reef with the tailings. Of course nobody in power believes it, but that doesn't matter because it is what voters believe that counts. Before long, there be more deals like Dan's Belt and Road, you can see it coming!