The Climate, Environment and Energy Thread

[kruddler]

For those old enough to remember....which on this site, is probably everybody, think back to the old VHS vs Beta days for video tapes.

A battle of technologies that ultimately did the same thing, albeit to differing degrees.

In the end, VHS won out.
In reality, Beta was the far superior product.

VHS had better marketing, so despite being inferior, won over the public.

BETA is Nuclear.

Re-educate the public and get a better marketing strategy that can cut through the alternative spin-doctoring and mud slinging of the alternatives.

[DJC]

Way more expensive to set up, but once running they are bang for buck in terms of gigawatt procured vs uranium required vs waste created.

I chose the word efficient for a reason.  Watching Australia roll out solar technology over the last 20 years doesn't make me say that its quick to produce nor cheap, and I don't see us having an abundance of redundant energy that we are storing (quite the opposite seems to occur frequently).  People seem hung up on the waste component of this.  Things aren't static.  The waste isn't what it used to be, and im sure that there are technology advancements that could be done to reduce the waste further by recycling it somehow.

The economic analyses are unequivocal, nuclear power generation is now too expensive.  That’s why the private sector won’t invest in nuclear power and is cutting its losses by cancelling power stations under construction.

There may be issues with the economic analyses but the corporate bean counters are convinced.  The only new nuclear power plants will be underwritten by governments.  As EB pointed out, most governments will struggle to find the funds, or private sector partners, to get the power distribution networks up to scratch.

[Thryleon]

The economic analyses are unequivocal, nuclear power generation is now too expensive.  That’s why the private sector won’t invest in nuclear power and is cutting its losses by cancelling power stations under construction.

There may be issues with the economic analyses but the corporate bean counters are convinced.  The only new nuclear power plants will be underwritten by governments.  As EB pointed out, most governments will struggle to find the funds, or private sector partners, to get the power distribution networks up to scratch.

the same applies to renewables about the grid and storage of energy. 

Its still moving forward.

  Im not arguing right vs wrong here, I'm saying the bean counters don't always measure things with saving the most amount beans, rather they count beans with politics involved, and will waste more beans for many reasons not to do with being efficient with the beans.

We all know that a nuclear power plant is unwanted on anyone's doorstep and thats the main blocker behind any of them being built and consequently a political loser which is the main blocker behind them being built.

[kruddler]

the same applies to renewables about the grid and storage of energy. 

Its still moving forward.

  Im not arguing right vs wrong here, I'm saying the bean counters don't always measure things with saving the most amount beans, rather they count beans with politics involved, and will waste more beans for many reasons not to do with being efficient with the beans.

We all know that a nuclear power plant is unwanted on anyone's doorstep and thats the main blocker behind any of them being built and consequently a political lover which is the main blocker behind them being built.

Aka 'marketing'

[LP]

The waste isn't what it used to be, and im sure that there are technology advancements that could be done to reduce the waste further by recycling it somehow.

That's the folly, it's the same folly for most human technologies, phones, batteries, plastic bags, paper, cars, tyres, and now Solar PV panels.

Paper and plastic are way easier to recycle and re-use than any of the other alternatives like Solar PV panels or batteries, and we have paper and plastic piling up in repositories all over each and every major city, even warehouses full of the stuff to keep it dry so it won't spontaneously ignite, or else the eventually bury it after residents have diligently sorted the recycling into clean piles and / or been fined for throwing it in the wrong bins! Do you know the biggest potential use for the bulk of it, they are planning to combust it in specially designed furnaces to make energy!

[LP]

Right on queue Germany is showing us the folly of premature shutdown of it's power stations, people are about to freeze over winter and even the greens are declaring a halt to the shutdown process.

The irony is, Germany imports most of it's reserve power now from France, and you know what generates it, nuclear!

Some will make this another pro / anti nuclear type debate, but it really is highlighting the stupidity of forming government energy management policy by social media. The replacement technologies just aren't there and reliable yet, a delay just to next April means squat, viability is years away!

Imagine if Echuca, Rochester, Kerang, etc., etc., had a dependency on ground plane solar PV, or the batteries went under. That's not going to be power back on when it things dry out, in weeks or months later! :o

[ElwoodBlues1]

Bit like buying a EV vehicle, high initial expense and you need to drive a certain number of K's to break even and then you start saving money.
You need all States working together and a network of reactors which deliver no more than 10% of the total output each for safety and maintenance.
It's the initial outlay, selling the cost/reward and setting up a controlling administration with the usual politics involved which are the barriers to entry for Australia.
The technology is there but it's pushing the go button in people's minds that is the hard bit...

[blueday]

More to come on this topics, repair and maintenance of battery driven vehicles has a long way to go..

https://edition.cnn.com/videos/us/2021/1...kg-vpx.cnn 

[Gointocarlton]

Bit like buying a EV vehicle, high initial expense and you need to drive a certain number of K's to break even and then you start saving money.
You need all States working together and a network of reactors which deliver no more than 10% of the total output each for safety and maintenance.
It's the initial outlay, selling the cost/reward and setting up a controlling administration with the usual politics involved which are the barriers to entry for Australia.
The technology is there but it's pushing the go button in people's minds that is the hard bit...

Wouldnt have an EV vehicle if you gave it to me for nicks EB.

[ElwoodBlues1]

Wouldnt have an EV vehicle if you gave it to me for nicks EB.

Im 50/50 GTC...my brain says the next car we buy has to be some form of EV either Hybrid, PHEV or Full electric but when you sit down and do the maths, pros and cons its hard to justify the expense. You look at the resale value on a EV with old batteries for example and it isnt going to be great and we just dont do the Km's anymore.
Also do you want to be stuck with a combustion only vehicle in 5-7 years time when Governments are going to be insisting you go some form of EV and making life harder for non EV cars/owners.
Long gone are the days when you keep a car for ten plus years like you and I might have done in the past...with tech changing/safety equipment getting more advanced etc you feel more inclined to upgrade to keep your family safer and thats how cunning car makers market and make their cars now...what to do?