Post Game Pondering: AFL 2020 Rd 9: Carlton vs Hawthorn

[Baggers]

Thinking with your frustrations not your head. Too many of the usual knee jerk reactions. You have to accept they'll be up and downs at this stage and bad losses. We had out and out brilliance, Geelong and Bulldogs, and we've had shockers. Actually, it's only the 2nd hammering under Teague in 20 games and everyone loses their mind. We have quite a bit to go but the scoreboard shows we are alot better. Have a bad loss and everyone goes crazy. No proper analysis just knee jerk crazy. Not that bad losses are acceptable but they will happen. If people can't they are following the wrong sport. We have to sort out the difference between good and bad.

You obviously don't have a problem with mediocrity and that's okay, but many of us do. You can apply academic explanations and excuses to satisfy your perspective, perfectly okay for you, perhaps, but not for many others. Each entitled to our opinions... but I'll stick with the self-evident facts/proof.

We're 12th, just, that's a fact - bottom 6 seems our place. We're erratic and weak under pressure... evidence is ample. When opponents don't bring heat, we look a million bucks, when they do bring heat we fall apart - poor leadership, poor discipline, become a bunch of individuals. But we are very, very nice.

Let's just agree to disagree.

[ElwoodBlues1]

I agree.

But I'd take Whitfield in a heartbeat, but he needs to come with a Greene, in fact Toby Greene might be perfect for us!

I suspect we have to move the older types on before this happens, the Simmo and sMurph types, we've too many OH&S Safe Workplace types. It leaves us as fodder for the kents, over and over again!

Agree.. Greene would make a lot of CSC members happy, gives you grunt, skill and kicks goals plus can play onball.
He is maligned and has created some of his own problems but in the hands of the right coach and leaders would go to another level imo.

[ElwoodBlues1]

I'm worry that Barker has been a constant through the recent disappointing period, I realise everybody loves him, he is a nice bloke, but he's taken over the midfield and stoppages this year and Cripps looks broken.

I do not dare look at the history of Barker's responsibilities and our performance or player issues.

Is this unfair?

Agree, Barker should have gone with Bolton..

[madbluboy]

While it's not the reason we lost, it clear 3 days of Clarkson bemoaning umpires has an effect, there were clear differences in how the rules were implemented last night to previous rounds. Whether you think that is good or bad is irrelevant, it's the inconsistency in the way the rules are implemented by umpires on the night that plagues the support.

Years ago I would leave a lot of games and think that was a great game, win or lose, you felt it was a fair contest and if you didn't win they were just better, harder, faster on the day. Very few games would I leave and think we were jibbed, now under the modern three umpiring regime most losses you feel jibbed, and you could sense the change in last nights game after 1/2-time. Then at the end the soft irrelevant free kicks on the wing evening up the count.

Didn't we get the first 8 or so free kicks?

[laj]

[member=29]laj[/member]‍

We are breaking Cripps Laj, we can't keep doing this crap over and over again and expect to make progress.

Clarkson had his whinge, perhaps got some favour from the umpires, but the win came because he exposed the same old same old not because of the umpires. It's just the umpiring leaves fans with that perception of being ripped off!

Clarkson looked like the Grinch that Stole Christmas last night, I haven't seen him like that since he put the mocker on Fev's 100th goal kicking at Etihad.

But the loss is due to fundamental list issues, you can put an end to Clarkson's tactics quite easily, but you have to have players willing to get down and dirty! You can't win playing fair, he's developed tactics that disable fair opponents!

Fact is we are making progress, last night was part of the caper of making progress unfortunately. Old habits will die hard  at this stage. We've had some great wins with Cripps being down this year. Cripps also needs to realise he doesn't always have to do it himself these days.

[laj]

You obviously don't have a problem with mediocrity and that's okay, but many of us do. You can apply academic explanations and excuses to satisfy your perspective, perfectly okay for you, perhaps, but not for many others. Each entitled to our opinions... but I'll stick with the self-evident facts/proof.

We're 12th, just, that's a fact - bottom 6 seems our place. We're erratic and weak under pressure... evidence is ample. When opponents don't bring heat, we look a million bucks, when they do bring heat we fall apart - poor leadership, poor discipline, become a bunch of individuals. But we are very, very nice.

Let's just agree to disagree.

Another knee jerk post.  Fancy assuming I'm happy with mediocrity. Stupid thing to say.  No I don't accept mediocrity, but I accept when a side up and coming that mediocrity will sometimes happen. Funny about that. You just keep working on it. Difference is I think with my head, not my frustrations.

The side has improved out of sight from 12 months ago and you know it. That's our 2nd thrashing in 20 games. Had losses we shouldn't have frustratingly had but that's part of it right now. If we didn't have then we would literally have been sitting on top of the ladder before last night, but we're not because at our stage of development were are still inconsistent, often during the same game. That's the reason why we are 10-10 under Teague, not 13-7 or 14-6. That's the one step stopping us from becoming a top side and will take time. But, hey, because we copped a shocker last night we are suddenly no good. Games like last night show us what we need to take the next step.

You expect it to happen overnight and get the shits when it doesn't happen. I know it takes time. As I said, can't cope with the ups and downs of the journey you're following the wrong sport.

[LoveNavy]

Noticed Clarko getting his usual media coverage.
Hoping the win over Carlton will be the turning point for the Hawks!!!
I'm sick to death of our club winning that accolade ?

[pew2]

we are to slow especially from defence and midfield ,over to our recruitment dept. Our coaches get rid teflon JB,bring ross lyon in to help teaguey and sps goes to mid and save himself or trade. Can we use plowman and kennedy in a trade scenario both to slow.

[Gointocarlton]

Another knee jerk post.  Fancy assuming I'm happy with mediocrity. Stupid thing to say.  No I don't accept mediocrity, but I accept when a side up and coming that mediocrity will sometimes happen. Funny about that. You just keep working on it. Difference is I think with my head, not my frustrations.

The side has improved out of sight from 12 months ago and you know it. That's our 2nd thrashing in 20 games. Had losses we shouldn't have frustratingly had but that's part of it right now. If we didn't have then we would literally have been sitting on top of the ladder before last night, but we're not because at our stage of development were are still inconsistent, often during the same game. That's the reason why we are 10-10 under Teague, not 13-7 or 14-6. That's the one step stopping us from becoming a top side and will take time. But, hey, because we copped a shocker last night we are suddenly no good. Games like last night show us what we need to take the next step.

You expect it to happen overnight and get the craps when it doesn't happen. I know it takes time. As I said, can't cope with the ups and downs of the journey you're following the wrong sport.

Is it improvement or change? Bolton had a streak of 6 out of 7 wins in his first year. If you take a 10-20 game sample set from that year, my gripe then (as it is now), the same things were happening despite some wins. So despite the changes, we still (as we have in the past from as far back as MM):
- Miss easy shots at goal
- Dont play 4 qtrs
- Have too many passengers
- Have poor decision makers
- Give away too many stupid frees
- Persist with players who arent up to it
- Have poor starts
- Wilt under pressure
- Forgo big leads
- Play sides into form
I consider Clarkson the best coach going around, has been for a long time. If he came to our club tomorrow, you would see some change BUT all the above dot points would continue to occur. WIth the exception of no 6, they are player issues not a coaching IMO.

[LoveNavy]

The difference is because the Holding the Ball implementation change last night, that enabled them to get their old structures back and working around stoppages and get some free numbers outside.

The bad Dawks ball using stats were because in previous weeks they were continually stuck in traffic under pressure.

They also saw the return of 4 of their top 22 last night.