General Discussions

[Lods]

Yep. I'll stick with the cats and the wheelbarrow and watch those directly involved duke it out.

There's probably one other group that's directly involved in the discussion, and that's parents and extended family as they often have to deal with the consequences on both sides of the debate.
My nephew was a 'female' until his early 20s.
That he is now a 'male' is a decision my sister still struggles with a bit, but loves and supports him, as you do as a parent (or uncle).
He's not really into any sports, so in his case this isn't really an issue but...

It goes without saying that the mental and societal struggles don't automatically end once that transition is made.
While a part of the person may have a feeling that things are now as they should always have been, there are numerous other challenges that such a change throws up.
For those looking to be involved in a competitive sport this is just another one.

[Thryleon]

There's probably one other group that's directly involved in the discussion, and that's parents and extended family as they often have to deal with the consequences on both sides of the debate.
My nephew was a 'female' until his early 20s.
That he is now a 'male' is a decision my sister still struggles with a bit, but loves and supports him, as you do as a parent (or uncle).
He's not really into any sports, so in his case this isn't really an issue but...

It goes without saying that the mental and societal struggles don't automatically end once that transition is made.
While a part of the person may have a feeling that things are now as they should always have been, there are numerous other challenges that such a change throws up.
For those looking to be involved in a competitive sport this is just another one.

yep.

The body actually rejects the change of hormones in these people as they start artificially taking hormones to become more feminine/masculine.

Chronic illness and sickness is often the result that is little talked about.

Honestly makes you wonder where this idea of transitioning comes from.

[Baggers]

yep.

The body actually rejects the change of hormones in these people as they start artificially taking hormones to become more feminine/masculine.

Chronic illness and sickness is often the result that is little talked about.

Honestly makes you wonder where this idea of transitioning comes from.

You're a funny one, 3 Leos. Where does the idea of transitioning come from? Well, first step is probably to let go of the idea that having the genitals of a female or male automatically determines what you identify with, within yourself... or social conditioning.

The absolute reality is that some folks might have the bits of a gal or fella, but their very sense of self/identity is different to the bits. Reality. Requires empathy and imagination to dare to attempt to really feel what these folks, feel; to imagine feeling as you do now about your gender identity but your bits are contrary to this deep sense of identity. Then, even if you cannot imagine this, to respect the decisions of another about their identity, their body.

And the fact that so many folks would go through such physical discomfort to create an integrity between their identity and body, to me, is testament to their courage. And all they ask of me is to respect their decision. Done, and just let me know how I can support you.

[Thryleon]

You're a funny one, 3 Leos. Where does the idea of transitioning come from? Well, first step is probably to let go of the idea that having the genitals of a female or male automatically determines what you identify with, within yourself... or social conditioning.

The absolute reality is that some folks might have the bits of a gal or fella, but their very sense of self/identity is different to the bits. Reality. Requires empathy and imagination to dare to attempt to really feel what these folks, feel; to imagine feeling as you do now about your gender identity but your bits are contrary to this deep sense of identity. Then, even if you cannot imagine this, to respect the decisions of another about their identity, their body.

And the fact that so many folks would go through such physical discomfort to create an integrity between their identity and body, to me, is testament to their courage. And all they ask of me is to respect their decision. Done, and just let me know how I can support you.

baggers, I got taught to love myself as I was and nature made me the way I was intended.

The whole idea of self loathe and change runs contrary to what I would deem being a well adjusted human being. 

There is nothing about behaviour that makes a man a man and a woman a woman.

Its only biology. 

[northernblue]

baggers, I got taught to love myself as I was and nature made me the way I was intended.

The whole idea of self loathe and change runs contrary to what I would deem being a well adjusted human being. 

There is nothing about behaviour that makes a man a man and a woman a woman.

Its only biology. 

?

[DJC]

baggers, I got taught to love myself as I was and nature made me the way I was intended.

The whole idea of self loathe and change runs contrary to what I would deem being a well adjusted human being. 

There is nothing about behaviour that makes a man a man and a woman a woman.

Its only biology. 

Remember Thry, science doesn’t care about what you believe.

Did you read about the Australian grasshopper species that hasn’t had any males for millions of years?

Rigid binary gender is a western cultural/religious construct that doesn’t have much to do with biology.

I worked with a trans gender woman for several years.  She was one of happiest, creative, well-adjusted people I have ever met.  Very different to how she was as a man.

[madbluboy]

How many grasshoppers have had sex change procedures?

[Baggers]

How many grasshoppers have had sex change procedures?

Not many these days, there used to be plagues of grasshopper surgeons, but pesticides have dramatically reduced the numbers.

[madbluboy]

Not many these days, there used to be plagues of grasshopper surgeons, but pesticides have dramatically reduced the numbers.

Not many male praying mantises around either.

[Thryleon]

Remember Thry, science doesn’t care about what you believe.

Did you read about the Australian grasshopper species that hasn’t had any males for millions of years?

Rigid binary gender is a western cultural/religious construct that doesn’t have much to do with biology.

I worked with a trans gender woman for several years.  She was one of happiest, creative, well-adjusted people I have ever met.  Very different to how she was as a man.

So, what you're telling me, is that science doesn't care what people believe about their identity, because their biology is what nature intended them to be?  Isn't that what the science tells us?

Djc what i say isn't about belief, and I think you've inferred something here and you are arguing a point with the wrong person.

Its not religious or about religion.  Im Greek.  We invented sexual ambiguity.

Nature has designed species that can transition organically.

Humans cannot do this. 

I know one who is chronically unwell.  The hormones give her headaches (born male).

When I say its just biology I mean it.

Ironically science doesn't care what people believe their identity should be.  Their biology disagrees.  When I state a well adjusted human accepts their body for what it is, its about self love.  Imperfections and all. 

Imagine being blind, or deaf, or born with a physical disability.  These people don't insist there is nothing wrong with them.  They simplify their life by not worrying about what they don't have, but accepting what they have, recognising that they will walk a different path than most humans and making the most of it.  When my dad died at age 56, I was 22.  My whole survival of that trauma was built on ACCEPTANCE of what I cannot change.  Why do you think seeing people fight what they CANNOT CHANGE is something I instantly dismiss?  Its not about religion, it hits me at that spot that helped me make peace with my dads passing.