The rise.... and RISE of Marc Pittonet

[Gointocarlton]

Herald Sun had Dangerfield and Cameron in the top ten best paid players in the comp that was around 850-950k this year.
Geelong relaxed their 500k max rule when they got Dangerfield from memory and I think Scott even went to the players and asked them if it was ok for the club to sign Danger on more money than anyone else...

I guess you could understand exceptions for players like Dangerfield and Cameron, my point is more about bewilderment around the money we pay for donkeys (by comparison) like Martin, Williams, McGovern etc. They wouldn't do that in a million years.

[ElwoodBlues1]

I guess you could understand exceptions for players like Dangerfield and Cameron, my point is more about bewilderment around the money we pay for donkeys (by comparison) like Martin, Williams, McGovern etc. They wouldn't do that in a million years.

Fair points........Cameron actually took a pay cut to go to Geelong, not sure if thats a reflection on Geelong being an attractive club to play for or GWS being the opposite.

[Gointocarlton]

Fair points........Cameron actually took a pay cut to go to Geelong, not sure if thats a reflection on Geelong being an attractive club to play for or GWS being the opposite.

Cameron is living his best life, premiership player, gets to live on his farm, fish, hunt ducks, rabbits, all while being paid to play the game he loves. You can't put a price on that, he wasn't getting any of the above at GWS. Vossy talks about nourishment through footy, Cameron would be as full as a goog.

[kruddler]

After the tap he is about as useful as a stuffed dummy hence why we can't win when rucks alone.

You still on about rucking alone?

Do I need to show you the opposition ladder position stats to show you your stat is bogus again?

[Gointocarlton]

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2023/06/28/t...s-ruckmen/

[Lods]

If they play together for the rest of this season... that will be a third of the games they've played together.
Work in progress.

(that probably won't progress)

[LP]

I suspect Negrepontis is just another SoJ booster, the tell is that suggestion SoJ is some sort of viable ruck alternative to TDK, I just can't take them seriously, nobody should take them seriously!

We can even see that TDK is now starting to bring more run and link up than SoJ as well. The only area where SoJ might have an advantage is in F50 as a 3rd target, and even that is now becoming borderline with every game TDK plays besides Charlie and Harry he gains experience, all that is needed is time and patience.

Why then is there all this SoJ boosting dressed up as TDK bashing? The subconscious hope seems to be that offloading TDK will preserve SoJ's spot on the list as a 2nd ruck option, but to me that will just fade the long term outlook for SoJ because he's no good in the ruck, and it will also expose us to mobile ruck opponents because Pitto can't go with them, mobile ruck options are rare as hens teeth and we already have one that has a whole career ahead of him!

SoJ needs to find his spot on his own terms in a role suited to him, it's not the ruck, has never been the ruck and will never be the ruck.

So the debate and the question here is not about TDK versus Pitto, they are very different styles of player, complimentary styles. The debate is really about TDK versus SoJ, but the SoJ boosters do not want to talk about the war they want to keep SoJ's name out of the debate and undermine main hurdle at MC. The boosters spend their time making unrealistic and irrelevant comparisons between 3rd parties to avoid raising a question, they pose arguments based in sophistry, that's why I wrote "Don't mention the war!"

[madbluboy]

You still on about rucking alone?

Do I need to show you the opposition ladder position stats to show you your stat is bogus again?

2 wins in 2 years. Spin it any way you like, Pittonet can't do it on his own. Actually our best two wins this year against Geelong and Gold Coast, TDK was first ruck with Pitt supporting him.

[LP]

2 wins in 2 years. Spin it any way you like, Pittonet can't do it on his own. Actually our best two wins this year against Geelong and Gold Coast, TDK was first ruck with Pitt supporting him.

Personally, I think it's quite wrong to think of this as 1st / 2nd ruck, it's old fashioned thinking.

Positions in modern football are more role based than having "a leader", no matter who does it they have to be capable in the role, and it's pointless trying to make some weird claim that TDK isn't capable relative to SoJ! :o

As I see in classic social media mnemonics the current situation looks like this for ruck options;
Pitto / TDK >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mirkov >>> SoJ / Young

Now in context of the above, most VFL watchers will tell you Mirkov isn't ready for AFL:!

[DJC]

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2023/06/28/t...s-ruckmen/

The problem with those analyses, forgetting the somewhat flaky data, is that the context is ignored; if our midfielders are down, clearances will be down. 

I took another look at the Gold Coast game and there was a stark change in the number of clearances we won when our midfield got on top.  It had little to do with hitouts won or hitouts to advantage.

Before looking at the numbers, there's no reason not to consider this game.  Pittonet was passed fit, he rarely uses his left hand in ruck contests and he took part in more ruck contests than De Koning; 52 to 43.

In the first quarter:

Pitto took part in 16 ruck contests for two centre clearances and two stoppage clearances.  Tom took part in eight ruck contests for three stoppage clearances.  Gold Coast (almost exclusively Witts) took part in 24 ruck contests for two centre clearances and ten stoppage clearances; a clear win for the Gold Coast ruck/midfield combination.

In the second quarter:

Pitto took part in seven ruck contests for six centre clearances.  Tom took part in nine ruck contests for two centre clearances and two stoppage clearances.  Gold Coast (Witts) took part in 16 ruck contests for two centre clearances and two stoppage clearances; a clear win for our ruck/midfield combination.  It's worth noting that Pitto was rucking for most of the centre bounces and our midfield tore Gold Coast a new one, regardless of who got the hitouts.

In the third quarter:

Pitto took part in 13 ruck contests for one centre clearance and three stoppage clearances.  Tom took part in 17 ruck contests for one centre clearance and six stoppage clearances.  Harry contested one boundary throw in and we won the clearance. Gold Coast (Witts) took part in 31 ruck contests for three centre clearances and eight stoppage clearances; a narrow win for our ruck/midfield combination. 

In the last quarter:

Pitto took part in 16 ruck contests for six centre clearance and four stoppage clearances.  Tom took part in nine ruck contests for two centre clearances and four stoppage clearances.  Harry and Charlie each took part in one ruck contest and Harry's resulted in a stoppage clearance.  We didn't contest one boundary throw in but won the clearance and scored a goal. Gold Coast took part in 28 ruck contests for one centre clearance and four stoppage clearances; a decisive win for our ruck/midfield combination. 

In total, Pitto took part in 52 ruck contests for 15 centre clearances and 9 stoppage clearances and Tom took part in 42 ruck contests for five centre clearances and 15 stoppage clearances.  Gold Coast took part in 98 ruck contests for eight centre clearances and 24 stoppage clearances.  Most of their stoppage clearances were won when Pitto was rucking.  As noted in the post-game thread, Witts was too strong for Pitto but Tom was too athletic for Witts.

Pitto and Tom are very different players but they complement each other and are difficult for opposition rucks to counter.  Tom, at his best, is a threat around the ground and up forward.  Pitto, at his best, can neutralise most opposition rucks and get the odd spoil, but he's not likely to provide a marking target when we have to go long.

As much as I like Silvagni's passion and endeavour, he's not a ruckman and we're far more competitive with Pitto and Tom rucking in tandem.