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(06-27-2023, 10:54 AM)Gointocarlton link Wrote:"When Pittonet attends a ruck contest, Carlton wins the clearance seven per cent more often than their opposition. When De Koning attends a ruck contest, they lose the clearance seven per cent more often than their opposition."
- Daniel Hoyne 27/6/23
....and this ladies and gentlemen is how we get away with playing Jack as a backup ruck, because what he lacks in ruckwork (which isn't much compared to TDK) he makes up in clearances once the ball hits the deck.
I've been saying it for years, TDK does not give us enough. It hurts the team playing 2 genuine rucks.
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Pittonet is a pure ruckman and has the edge over De Koning in this space. De Koning is better around the ground. I'm really not sure why we have to compare them, or what there is to be gained by doing so. It's not apples and oranges, but they're not the same type of player, and I'm sure the club knows that. De Koning is also 4 years younger.
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(06-27-2023, 11:08 AM)PaulP link Wrote:Pittonet is a pure ruckman and has the edge over De Koning in this space. De Koning is better around the ground. I'm really not sure why we have to compare them, or what there is to be gained by doing so. It's not apples and oranges, but they're not the same type of player, and I'm sure the club knows that. De Koning is also 4 years younger.
Until i started comparing them, people assumed TDK was (at worst) the equal of Pittonet in the ruck, and far superior around the ground. Now people seem to accept Pittonets dominance in the ruck. So the question becomes, does TDK do enough around the ground...to which my answer has always been no. I think we have better options as a '2nd ruck'....because that '2nd ruck' doesn't have to be very good as a ruck, but offer more around the ground.
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06-27-2023, 11:41 AM
(This post was last modified: 06-27-2023, 11:43 AM by LP.)
(06-27-2023, 11:08 AM)PaulP date Wrote:Pittonet is a pure ruckman and has the edge over De Koning in this space. De Koning is better around the ground. I'm really not sure why we have to compare them, or what there is to be gained by doing so. It's not apples and oranges, but they're not the same type of player, and I'm sure the club knows that. De Koning is also 4 years younger. Yes most of us get that the Mid rotations play just as big of a part, the Mids you pair the rucks with matters, and we don't accept pure concession is ever a viable option.
We can't allow names to interfere with our list management.
"Ruck, ruck, ruck, ruck ....... Ruck, ruck, ruck, ruck"
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(06-27-2023, 11:41 AM)LP link Wrote:Yes most of us get that the Mid rotations play just as big of a part, the Mids you pair the rucks with matters, and we don't accept pure concession is ever a viable option.
We can't allow names to interfere with our list management.
That is complete bollocks.
You keep talking about mid rotations. Yet their is no evidence of this. If Pittonet plays as sole ruck he averages 'x' amount of RC-HTA%. If TDK plays as sole ruck, he averages 'y' amount of RC-HTA%.
If they play as a pair, they each average the same amount of RC-HTA% as if they play as sole ruck.
This definitively disproves your 'pairing' assertion.
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Hmmmmmm, sure it is!
[img width=750]https://www.carltonsc.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5066.0;attach=1353[/img]
"Ruck, ruck, ruck, ruck ....... Ruck, ruck, ruck, ruck"
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06-27-2023, 12:49 PM
(This post was last modified: 06-27-2023, 12:52 PM by LP.)
Just in case somebody really believes those nasty FinalSiren stats.
We better get them put in their place with the lovely unbiased purely analytical AFL CD data that has the good old HTA as well!
[img width=750]https://www.carltonsc.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5066.0;attach=1355[/img]
Psssst .............. "Don't talk about the War!" :o
"Ruck, ruck, ruck, ruck ....... Ruck, ruck, ruck, ruck"
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That ruck duo can never work, what a pair of spuds! 
"Ruck, ruck, ruck, ruck ....... Ruck, ruck, ruck, ruck"
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Something doesn't add up. The players in this conversation are Pittonet, De Koning, Jack Silvagni, and arguably Lewis Young. Pittonet signed a four year deal, De Koning has a contract in front of him from us, as well as suitors such as Geelong, Sydney and St Kilda, all offering what is supposedly good money. If he's not that great, then why the interest ? Have Stephen Wells and Kinnear Beatson suddenly lost their mojo ? If Jack Silvagni or Lewis Young can do as good or a better job, then why are we and other clubs even bothering with De Koning ?
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(06-27-2023, 10:25 PM)PaulP link Wrote:Something doesn't add up. The players in this conversation are Pittonet, De Koning, Jack Silvagni, and arguably Lewis Young. Pittonet signed a four year deal, De Koning has a contract in front of him from us, as well as suitors such as Geelong, Sydney and St Kilda, all offering what is supposedly good money. If he's not that great, then why the interest ? Have Stephen Wells and Kinnear Beatson suddenly lost their mojo ? If Jack Silvagni or Lewis Young can do as good or a better job, then why are we and other clubs even bothering with De Koning ? Its nonsense to think De Koning is no good. Does it come down to whether he is worth more to us as a player or in trade value?
2017-16th
2018-Wooden Spoon
2019-16th
2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
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