The rise.... and RISE of Marc Pittonet

[kruddler]

Let's debate a simple question, what is a tap to advantage?

- Does the tap have to hit a team-mate on the full?
- Is a tap into the path of a team-mate enough?
- Is a tap into clear space to be collect by someone other than a Mid a tap to advantage?

"A hit-out that reaches an intended teammate."

Doesn't have to be on the full.

Its the same as kicking. Kick it to your teammates advantage. Kick it to him directly, or into his path. A spot that is to you and your teams benefit, not to the opposition or a 50-50 contest.

[kruddler]

The HtA stats are equally bogus.

You can assess the ruck taps very very easily, like counting cards, and ignoring what happen next;
Tap Win = +1
Tap Loss = -1
Nil = 0 (The most frequent event)

Do this and you find ruck tap work is highly over-rated.

Yes, because its hitouts.....NOT hitouts to advantage.

There will be some data on it, that i'm not privvy too, that will convert hitouts to advantage into clearances. It won't be 100% because the target may drop/fumble the ball, but it would be significantly higher than a normal hitout........which is the point.

[LP]

"A hit-out that reaches an intended teammate."

Doesn't have to be on the full.

Its the same as kicking. Kick it to your teammates advantage. Kick it to him directly, or into his path. A spot that is to you and your teams benefit, not to the opposition or a 50-50 contest.

So in summary, the statisticians have no idea who the ruck was tapping it to, but a team-mate got it.

The odd shaped oval ball can bounce sideways, or zig zag like a slinky on cocaine, and it's advantage.

The sweeper can do as the name says and clean the pill from a stumbling team-mate, and it's a win.

All to the great credit of the rucks, I never realised the statisticians were mind readers!

I'm sorry Kruddler, I realise you've invested a lot of time and effort in and based on the Hitout to Advantage stuff, but it's largely a stat invented by someone who has no fecking idea of ruck play or stoppages. We can rename it "The Mystery Stat" or perhaps "The Houdini", because nobody has any idea what happened!

[Lods]

How many times in a game does a ruckman tap the ball to one of his players and that player is immediately tackled.
Sometimes it results in putting your player under pressure and ends in a free kick the other way.
So the only real worth of a 'hit-out to advantage' stat would be if that stat also included some territory gained, or a clearance from that hitout.

It's the same with a hospital handpass...It's an 'effective disposal' but actually disdavantages the side.

The best judgement is to watch the game to see effectiveness....not the stat sheet.
Stats have a place but only as part of a much bigger picture.

[DJC]

How many times in a game does a ruckman tap the ball to one of his players and that player is immediately tackled.
Sometimes it results in putting your player under pressure and ends in a free kick the other way.
So the only real worth of a 'hit-out to advantage' stat would be if that stat also included some territory gained, or a clearance from that hitout.

It's the same with a hospital handpass...It's an 'effective disposal' but actually disdavantages the side.

The best judgement is to watch the game to see effectiveness....not the stat sheet.
Stats have a place but only as part of a much bigger picture.

That's the flaw with the hitouts to advantage statistic Lods; it may result in a clearance, another stoppage or an opposition clearance.  How often does Cripps barge through opponents to gather an errant hitout (that then becomes a hitout to advantage) only to be tackled for another stoppage or a free either way.  It's Cripps that's enabling the hitout to advantage.

A better statistic would be 'ruck contest outcomes' with a points system similar to the pressure acts statistics; 5 points for a hitout that reaches a teammate or taking clean possession, 5 points for an effective kick or handpass after taking possession, 5 points if the hitout results in a clearance, 5 points if the ruckman blocks or shepherds to aid the clearance or tackles an opposition player, 2 points if territory is gained before another stoppage, -5 if the opposition ruckman wins the hitout or takes possession, -5 points if the opposition ruckman gets an effective kick or handpass after taking possession, -5 points if the opposition wins the clearance, and -2 points if the opposition gains territory.

[kruddler]

So in summary, the statisticians have no idea who the ruck was tapping it to, but a team-mate got it.

The odd shaped oval ball can bounce sideways, or zig zag like a slinky on cocaine, and it's advantage.

The sweeper can do as the name says and clean the pill from a stumbling team-mate, and it's a win.

All to the great credit of the rucks, I never realised the statisticians were mind readers!

I'm sorry Kruddler, I realise you've invested a lot of time and effort in and based on the Hitout to Advantage stuff, but it's largely a stat invented by someone who has no fecking idea of ruck play or stoppages. We can rename it "The Mystery Stat" or perhaps "The Houdini", because nobody has any idea what happened!

In summary, you've lost the argument and resorting to nonsense to back you up.

If you cannot work out what 'to advantage' means, then we should give you a footy jumper and ship you out as part of the best 22, because it appears they do not understand that either.

If however, you are like 99% of football watchers, including statisticians, you understand exactly what that means.

Even umpires no what 'an advantage' is....and we can all agree they know nothing about football generally.

[shawny]

Pit gives effort but tonight proved again he has no idea at all.  Gives away dumb frees is so clumsy and once the tap is over we are playing a man down as the bloke has no clue He wouldn’t get a game in any of the top 8 teams.

[Thryleon]

Pit gives effort but tonight proved again he has no idea at all.  Gives away dumb frees is so clumsy and once the tap is over we are playing a man down as the bloke has no clue He wouldn’t get a game in any of the top 8 teams.

his dumb frees weren't even there tonight.

Not sure what the umpires see.

[kruddler]

Pit gives effort but tonight proved again he has no idea at all.  Gives away dumb frees is so clumsy and once the tap is over we are playing a man down as the bloke has no clue He wouldn’t get a game in any of the top 8 teams.

I think it proves the umps had no idea.

I think they felt bad for Pittonet whipping Big O so badly. Another 15 hitouts to advantage from his 48 hitouts.
TBH, i was surprised it was that many tonight.

[LP]

I think it proves the umps had no idea.

I think they felt bad for Pittonet whipping Big O so badly. Another 15 hitouts to advantage from his 48 hitouts.
TBH, i was surprised it was that many tonight.

There it is, the hard evidence of how bogus that stat really is!