CV and mad panic behaviour

[Mav]

If you’ve been vaccinated, then the vaccine may well be the reason your symptoms weren’t that serious. That’s the thing that’s often forgotten when we look back on the pandemic. We assume that Covid would have been the same for us if we’d had it before vaccines were available. Not so. It was a lot more lethal then.

[Thryleon]

If you’ve been vaccinated, then the vaccine may well be the reason your symptoms weren’t that serious. That’s the thing that’s often forgotten when we look back on the pandemic. We assume that Covid would have been the same for us if we’d had it before vaccines were available. Not so. It was a lot more lethal then.

The data points to this not being the case though Mav.  3 doses, with my last does greater than 12 months from my infection.  According to the data (not mine) efficacy of vaccination is limited to 3 months and drops remarkably afterwards which is why we are up to 5 vaccinations in some circles.

[Mav]

You’re just 1 data point though. That reminds me of an old dude who ambled down the street in war torn Sarajevo during daytime while snipers were active. The footage showed bullets hitting the road around him but he made it through untouched. I guess he would have said that the danger from snipers was overstated.

[LP]

The data points to this not being the case though Mav.  3 doses, with my last does greater than 12 months from my infection.  According to the data (not mine) efficacy of vaccination is limited to 3 months and drops remarkably afterwards which is why we are up to 5 vaccinations in some circles.

The real problem is public expectation.

The truth is most vaccines fall in efficacy after a few months, it's the reason why influenza vaccines are seasonal, even if you had that type of vaccine a few years back when it returns you will need another. But that doesn't mean you haven't developed some level of immune memory, which helps diminish the effects.

The rare vaccines are the vaccines that work for life!

The anti-vaccination chatter hides the real risk, which is the lottery of getting Sars-CoV-2 not having been vaccinated. That latest heart health study shows the risk for unvaccinated is something 300% to 500% higher than for vaccinated people, and that is on top of already knowing that unvaccinated are about 1900% more likely to get severe COVID(ICU) than vaccinated people. But even so the public is still free to choose whether to be vaccinated or not, just I wish they wouldn't justify their choice by spreading a bunch of public misinformation.

[Baggers]

There's a fair bit of 20/20 hindsight going on now, 3 Leos.

We must factor in that we were unprepared for a pandemic and in many instances, flying in the dark; learning as we go. Also important to remember that our health care system was also not set up properly for a pandemic so most strong reactions (re lockdowns) were also for over burdened health care workers/institutions - we simply had to limit infections to limit hospital admissions.

Wingman MAV and the Spotted One are absolutely correct re severity of Covid relative to vaccine or no vaccine. I know how I respond to seasonal flues, and when I got Covid (twice), and having been vaccinated, the symptoms though flu-like were markedly reduced.

[Mav]

But even so the public is still free to choose whether to be vaccinated or not, just I wish they wouldn't justify their choice by spreading a bunch of public misinformation.

I had an interesting encounter with a bloke in the local park while walking my dog. After he started by asking about my dog and showing me a picture of his dog, somehow things took an unexpected turn. He talked about his mother having cancer and the forces of evil trying to stop people getting the cures promoted on the internet. As a subtle way of distancing myself from that nonsense I mentioned the fact that Steve Jobs had an eminently treatable cancer but he managed to kill himself by adopting alternative (quack) cures such as vitamin C. Lo and behold, this guy then segues into another conspiracy theory, saying Jobs didn’t do what other elites did in his circumstances. He said it was well known that rich people travelled to Jeffrey Epstein’s island where young girls were imprisoned in dark basements and scared with spiders and other nasties so their adrenaline could be sucked from their bodies as a cure for cancer. I’m pretty sure he suggested some woman put out a video saying she was forced to kill her daughter as part of that conspiracy. Mind blown! The guy was friendly and pleasant but WTF …

Another weirdo is Kate Langbroek. A Hun story about her exploits on The Project says it all:

Waleed Aly shuts down The Project co-host Kate Langbroek over bizarre ‘conspiracy’ rant
Waleed Aly has shut down The Project co-host Kate Langbroek after she launched into a bizarre conspiracy theory rant on Tuesday night.

The discussion occurred during a segment on the 15-minute city conspiracy that has recently exploded around the world, including here in Australia.

The 15-minute city concept is a simple one – everyday essentials such as healthcare, schools, work, shops and eateries should be a convenient 15-minute walk, cycle or public transport trip away to make life more enjoyable and sustainable.

However, it has been hijacked by conspiracists, who claim it’s all part of a grand master plan by global elites to lock down and control the population.

After a video package explaining the concept and the associated conspiracy, Langbroek told the panel she enjoyed certain conspiracies, and was asked whether she believed in this one – which is when things took an odd turn.

“Um, well, I don’t know about you, but I have been locked down by governments recently, so I’m like, it’s kind of an easy thing to go, ‘oh, conspiracy theorists’, however, let us just remember this – that in the 1600s a guy called Galileo was put in jail, and I think died in jail, because he said the earth went around the sun,” Langbroek began.

That prompted Aly to sarcastically chime in: “Oh well, that’s that then”.

“OK, because that at the time was considered to be heresy, and now we know it to be the truth,” Langbroek continued.

“Yeah, but that’s not a conspiracy,” Aly argued.

“It was then Waleed!” a frustrated Langbroek replied, with Aly asking her to explain what the conspiracy actually was.

“The conspiracy was that what he believed was wrong, what he was telling people was wrong,” she said.
Aly acknowledged he could “see what you’re saying”, but argued it was a “slightly different argument”.

“I’m just feeling increasingly like there’s a battle for control of people, clearly, everywhere you go, there are cameras, everywhere you go – I just think, I don’t think conspiracy theorists in some cases are that crazy,” Langbroek continued.

Co-host Sarah Harris then interjected to lighten the mood, joking that a conspiracy theory that all birds were actually robots “is pretty crazy though”, prompting a strange reply from Langbroek.

“I don’t know about all of them, but I do know birds have got tiny little brains capable of anything … easily influenced like the sheep,” she said, before bleating on air.

“I guess the case has been made,” Aly said.

“I get the idea that people are losing trust in government and things like that … but the problem is the logical extension of that is any time someone comes up with what might be a good idea, we’ll just want to kill it because we’ll decide it’s a conspiracy somehow.”

The Project debate comes as the 15-minute city issue continues to blow up across the world, with thousands of protesters attending the Stop Oxford: No 15 Minute Cities community day of action in Oxford in the UK over the weekend.

I’m pretty amazed that Waleed Aly wasn’t able to shoot down her nonsense more effectively. She had the temerity to compare her fellow conspiracy theorists to Galileo. He was a scientist who went where the facts took him. He was then attacked by the Church on the basis of beliefs that were resistant to contrary proof. Conspiracy  theorists are the inheritors of the Church’s anti-scientific beliefs, though thankfully they have less power.

[PaulP]

Whilst i think Kate's Galileo connection is bizarre, I think the broader issue of increased surveillance of the populace by governments, electronic devices like phones, smart watches etc. that can track your exact location, possess loads of personal and important information, all there for the taking by corporations etc., is pretty real and pretty valid. The ability to know plenty about an individual or group is off the charts compared to what it once was. Maybe that was more along the lines of what Kate was trying to say.

[Mav]

I think she said what she meant and she meant what she said. If she wanted to go off on the surveillance State she could have done that. The moment we reframe lunatic conspiracy theories that way is when we lose the ability to work for the common good. Every philanthropic policy can be undermined as some attempt by out-of-control governments and elites to turn the people into sheep. Try to take guns off the street and that’s the Government trying to prevent patriots from fighting against tyranny. Running vaccination programs will lead to accusations that chips are being inserted to track everybody. By all means, attack the use of tracking and pooling of private information but destroying beneficial government programs won’t do anything in that regard.

PS: Feel free to find some evidence that she has some coherent world view that should earn her some respect.

Edit: I did think she’d been uncharitable towards a mentally ill guy who believed she was in his house but he was given a substantial jail sentence suggesting his issues may have been caused by drug abuse rather than mental illness. Criticism withdrawn on that issue.

[PaulP]

I think she said what she meant and she meant what she said. If she wanted to go off on the surveillance State she could have done that. The moment we reframe lunatic conspiracy theories that way is when we lose the ability to work for the common good. Every philanthropic policy can be undermined as some attempt by out-of-control governments and elites to turn the people into sheep. Try to take guns off the street and that’s the Government trying to prevent patriots from fighting against tyranny. Running vaccination programs will lead to accusations that chips are being inserted to track everybody. By all means, attack the use of tracking and pooling of private information but destroying beneficial government programs won’t do anything in that regard.............................................

Yes, I guess those are fair points, and perhaps I gave her too much BOD.

At any rate, the walkable city is not exactly a new concept. It's called the "New Urbanism", and it's been around for decades.

[Thryleon]

There's a fair bit of 20/20 hindsight going on now, 3 Leos.

We must factor in that we were unprepared for a pandemic and in many instances, flying in the dark; learning as we go. Also important to remember that our health care system was also not set up properly for a pandemic so most strong reactions (re lockdowns) were also for over burdened health care workers/institutions - we simply had to limit infections to limit hospital admissions.

Wingman MAV and the Spotted One are absolutely correct re severity of Covid relative to vaccine or no vaccine. I know how I respond to seasonal flues, and when I got Covid (twice), and having been vaccinated, the symptoms though flu-like were markedly reduced.

Not really I suggested as much earlier in the piece and have acknowledged that we were unprepared for any of the pandemic but can see without a shadow of a doubt that many of the measures to contain the pandemic actually had greater and worse outcomes than letting it rip probably would have.  Thing is in medical circles they knew before everyone was vaxxed what the likelihood was for the majority.  A quick infection and thats it, some would cop it bad, most wouldn't even know they had it.

Remember I was in the health care system and left in January of last year.  I spoke to people who were responsible for the covid pathways and monitoring before they needed care. 

I caught covid God knows where and my symptoms were as bad as anyone could have had without needing medical treatment and all it took to control it was paracetamol to really control them.

People stating and over stating the severity of covid are not helping matters.  The cat is out of the bag, and I'll call a spade a spade, and an enlightened mind will entertain the idea that we made some errors.

We did what we thought was necessary, and the data should show a catastrophic number of unvaccinated covid deaths if even one iota of what is stated about the data is true.  Thing is most of them would have had multiple co morbidities.  For those who don't understand what that means something that would likely have killed them anyway.


Lots of what has been said here is an angle of the truth.  A bit like the solar vs nuclear debate.  Its all an angle rather than a known truth.

This last month in particular has seen the trains go back to full capacity and the roads well and truly out of control.  They've stopped counting numbers,  they've stopped testing without a GP referral, the data collection is over and the results are in.  The pandemic was a false alarm.

It would be political suicide to come out and put that point out there with the hyper inflation we are facing now.