CV and mad panic behaviour

[flyboy77]

The sooner we concede - or at least discuss openly - that this current batch of CV19 vaccines are next to useless - we might have a chance as a society.

VE, cited as a relative measure is a useless measure without looking at, in tandem, the absolute efficiency.

Time to revisit the swag of early treatments readily available (absent TGA 'bans').

c19early.com

2 jabs + 2 boosters in a 12 month period = NOT a vaccine.

Don't stop infection or transmission = destroys the argument for any form of vaccine passport.

Latest data out of the UK - vaccinated folk have higher rates of infection and hospitalisation than the unvaxxed....in all age deciles above 30.

Just a money generating, poorly conceived treatment. On a good day.

Let's see who steps up - so gleefully and readily for the ongoing series of boosters....

For a disease that was #38 on the causes of death in Australia in 2020 (pre vaccine). When the great majority of those CV19 related were caused by government malfeasance.

Meanwhile, our beloved Premier, true to form, forgetting (again) he's a public servant.

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/coronavirus...cb432f0d90

[Mav]

Yep, take Ivermectin instead, yada, yada, yada ...

[capcom]

VERY interesting reading this morning how and why India's death numbers have dropped like a stone.

Turns out they (allegedly) have a natural body immunity to the virus.  In a way, I'm not surprised by that given their living conditions over many generations and a build up of resistance.

[DJC]

VERY interesting reading this morning how and why India's death numbers have dropped like a stone.

Turns out they (allegedly) have a natural body immunity to the virus.  In a way, I'm not surprised by that given their living conditions over many generations and a build up of resistance.

From what I've read, just under 70% of the Indian population now has COVID antibodies, indicating that they have been vaccinated or have been exposed to the virus.  Only 52% of the population has had one vaccination so a significant number of those with COVID antibodies must have had the virus.  This represents a serious undercount of infections; 33 undetected infections for every one detected  :o

Undercounting COVID cases and deaths has been a feature of the pandemic in India.  Excess deaths has been estimated at between 3.4 and 4.9M and the official COVID death toll is 400,000.

Similar sharp declines in case numbers were observed in the UK, the Netherlands and Israel after the most recent spikes and were explained as likely to be the result high vaccination rates and high infection levels.

[Mav]

I'd prefer DJC's explanation. But I'll follow the science, wherever that leads. If it does transpire that Indians have stronger immunity against Covid, then so be it. But clear scientific evidence would be required rather than conjecture.

The 2 intuitive arguments against the idea would be:

• Indians are hardly a homogenous and closed demographic. Most of us would struggle to differentiate Indians from Pakistanis from Sri Lankans from Bangladeshis from Afghanis etc. That's because there's more than a little commonality there. If Indians had an impressive natural resistance, you'd expect that to be true of those other populations. That doesn't seem to be noted statistically.
  
• The argument that Indians have better immunity as they are exposed to more dirt and contamination has a surface plausibility. We've all heard that scientists believe that excessive cleanliness in Western households may have predisposed children to athsma and allergies. But this is a novel coronavirus. It's not as though Indians would be less likely to suffer colds and flu because many have been forced to deal with unsanitary conditions. And even if they had generated greater immunity against those coronaviruses, that wouldn't have given them an advantage against a novel coronavirus which requires a different response. After all, the flu vaccine didn't give anyone protection against Covid.

Unfortunately, commonplace harsh and unsanitary conditions don't tend to confer stronger immunity. That's the reason why there has been so much concern for indigenous communities and minorities such as black Americans. Poorer access to healthcare and good nutrition leaves people more susceptible to Covid rather than more protected from it. Disadvantage reduces life expectancy rather than increasing it.

That's not to say that there aren't people who have a greater level of natural immunity against Covid. That's the benefit of genetic diversity through sexual reproduction. Clones produced by asexual reproduction would always have the same strengths and weaknesses. For species using that method of reproduction, a fatal new disease will wipe out the whole population.  With sexual reproduction, some may well survive and allow the species to regenerate. There was even 1 guy, Stephen Crohn, who was totally resistant to HIV thanks to a genetic mutation. There was talk early on in the pandemic that some blood types may be less affected by Covid than other blood types. So I can buy the idea that there are some people in every community who have little to fear from Covid but I doubt that there are entire populations who have that golden ticket.

[Mav]

The Victorian vaccine mandate challenge will be heard in late November or early December. The Judge who will hear it has just ruled against a motion by the plaintiffs to get her to withdraw from the case due to perceptions of bias. That's a great start to the plaintiff's case. Unless you know you're going to lose anyway, it aint a great idea to piss off the Judge. But it's great for conspiracy theorists. Ironically, if she had withdrawn from the case, the trial would have been delayed until the new year given that she was alllocated the case because she was the only one who could hear it this year.

Given that the mandated 2nd dose is supposed to be 26 November, will there be many who hold out for the ruling? And if the new pandemic legislation does go through, will the plaintiffs get any benefit out of a win in Court?

[LP]

An interesting correlation to the India scenario is that the bat blamed for Sars-CoV-2 spreads and migrates across the Asian Subcontinent from India to China, and early on some science sources thought the genetics pointed to a origin in the subcontinent, but that was lost in the lab leak and wet market hypothesis.

So it's quite possible that initial finding was on the money and India may have some natural immunity.

[Mav]

Correct me if I’m wrong, the only way a population can gain a natural immunity to a disease is for those who are susceptible to it to die from it or at least be rendered infertile. Then natural selection will enable those who are genetically resistant to it become dominant. That would take a long time to play out and the mass deaths would be legendary.

The other way is for the population to be widely exposed to a disease and develop an immunity that might in some cases be life-long. But leaving aside the messy theory about epigenetics, that immunity wouldn’t be passed on to the next generation as there’d be no genetic change or mutation. This was historically the way Europeans were able to survive smallpox and then use it against indigenous populations in the Americas as a biological weapon. Children who were infected with smallpox wouldn’t become very sick and they’d be immune for life.

But if the latter method had caused Indians to develop widespread immunity that predated Covid-19, that means Covid-19 was circulating in India well before it escaped from Wuhan. If this were even a possibility, the Chinese would have been yelling it from the rooftops. As they haven’t, we can stick a fork in that idea.

[kruddler]

Perhaps India had a mild case of the disease and that mutated into the one that came out of wuhan....and continues to mutate today.

That'd offer some kind of immunity without the need for conspiracy theories wouldn't it?
It could simply be China had no knowledge of it.
There has always been some question marks on time frames....

[DJC]

Perhaps India had a mild case of the disease and that mutated into the one that came out of wuhan....and continues to mutate today.

That'd offer some kind of immunity without the need for conspiracy theories wouldn't it?
It could simply be China had no knowledge of it.
There has always been some question marks on time frames....

Not with the official death rate in India, and definitely not with the likely death rate.  They were hit very hard.