CV and mad panic behaviour

[Thryleon]

Also, we are all going to catch covid.  Considering the bulk of us have vaccinated recently you're better off catching it within the next few months. 

I'll remind you at this point that I'm a hospital worker who got double jabbed by July.  Id rather catch covid now than in April next year.

[kruddler]

We can't hide in our homes forever kruddler.

We've had government mandates, everyone has had their chance to get vaccinated we need to start returning to as normal as possible.

Our lockdowns are going to be less effective anyway as we proceed with freedoms for the vaccinated and the unvaccinated are going to continue to remain so until they change their mind or the mandate is lifted.


When the hospitals feel some pressure we can adjust again but thus far, I see a lot of extremely tired people in health care who are as exhausted from the protection measures and lack of social life as they are from the pandemic.

I'm just pointing out that letting everyone 'be free' is not the end of the argument and there are consequences to that.

[LP]

I'm just pointing out that letting everyone 'be free' is not the end of the argument and there are consequences to that.

While I'm optimistic, I suspect a lot of people are going to be shocked by how limited this "new free" might potentially become in the weeks and months ahead.

Mostly, this desire to cut loose is a prayer we hear being spoken for winding the clock back, not a commentary about the reality of the future, the idea this free is free like before is potentially quite far from the truth.

I think this because at this stage the science seems to indicate natural immunity is rather poor and short lived, Sars-CoV-2 has a trick of suppressing the immune system which is why vaccines are still a far better solution than getting a Sars-CoV-2 infection. But it looks like neither, getting a vaccination or surviving an infection, is a permanent solution.

Let's hope the bean counters don't slash funding like they did back in 2003 when Sars waned, but this is also a prayer and I'm not fully confident humanity won't repeat it's same mistakes!

[Macca37]

You would be hard pressed to make a tax payer foot the bill for health care their taxes are supposed to cover.

It will get worse, but there are measures in place that haven't been required at this stage and im pretty sure where I work a 700 (there are more but they've closed beds for donning and doffing ppe) bed hospital with less than 100 covid patients means there's a bit of room to move.

Thry, I understand the point of your first sentence.

What annoys me is the fact that the Federal Government has spent taxpayer dollars allocated for health on vaccines to protect every eligible person,  and yet those who refuse to have the vaccine, for whatever reason, unnecessarily overload the health system when they contract covid.

When this happens people with other medical conditions are denied their rights to health care which they have also paid for with their taxes.

i know four people who have had elective surgery cancelled as a direct result of covid overloading of the health system.

[ElwoodBlues1]

Thry, I understand the point of your first sentence.

What annoys me is the fact that the Federal Government has spent taxpayer dollars allocated for health on vaccines to protect every eligible person,  and yet those who refuse to have the vaccine, for whatever reason, unnecessarily overload the health system when they contract covid.

When this happens people with other medical conditions are denied their rights to health care which they have also paid for with their taxes.

i know four people who have had elective surgery cancelled as a direct result of covid overloading of the health system.

Couple of Stroke patients I know got moved due to CoVid overload in a inner Melb hospital, everyone knows cases will increase with opening up and loosening of restrictions , you just have to hope infected patients on the whole only have mild systems and dont present at Hospital.
I'm with Dr Norman Swann and reckon accepting International travelers is crazy and just looking for a new strain to jump into the country. Rather we just open state borders and see how we go and leave the overseas travel to other countries and see how they go first so we can learn from their mistakes or if successful follow their strategies.
Some of my sons dumb inlaws want to jump on cruise ships again because packages are cheap but I'd sink any cruise ship entering our waters unless those companies can prove they are on top of controlling infection and checking passengers properly.
Too many moving parts in terms of transient crews, stop overs, transient passengers getting on and off at different locations etc etc.

[Thryleon]

Look guys, its a pandemic.

Thus far we have dodged a lot of covid patients going to hospital at all and the "strain" on the health system is being over stated purely based on a few anecdotals.  The number of covid patients we have in our hospitals at all at the moment is the thing to look for, and look how NSW is tracking with their covid journey.  We are only at worst a few weeks behind them in both vaccinations, and although our numbers look a bit ordinary, the facts are as follows:

We have a grand total of 777 current cases admitted.  The relaxing of restrictions with current vaccine coverage is unlikely to lead to a sharp increase in hospitalisation.

There are 151 ICU, 94 on ventilators.

In NSW, they currently have 606 in hospital, 132 in ICU, and 71 on ventilators and there last few weeks have seen falling case numbers at really strong rates, which indicates that the vaccinations do stop the spread.

Yes, the pandemic is going to continue. 
Yes the worst of it is ahead of us. 
No, opening up is not going to lead to thousands of covid patients clogging hospitals (reference NSW).
No, we are not going to get to 0, and
Yes we are going to see hospitals under some level of strain but the hospitals at the moment, aren't even close to straining.

Normality needs to resume.  Its simple stuff.  We are 13 days away from 80% double vaxed, and 4 days away from 90% single vaxed.  By the start of December, we are going to see 90% of our population in victoria double vaxed.

As we have seen from history, it would take months to infect the remaining people in large numbers who aren't getting vaccinated and only a small percentage of those remaining actually go to hospital.  The majority of people holding out beyond this time, are more likely to go get vaccinated out of fear of opening up, than they would if we stay with significant restrictions which feeds their anti Dan, anti Vax agenda, covid is fake and this is all about control agenda, rather than makes them see that all of this was done for their own well being.

[LP]

I wonder if the various apps will prevent anti-vaxers booking their "escape" to Bali.

I have to expect they'll try, and if they do and end up infected, who foots the repatriation bill?

[Mav]

In NSW, they currently have 606 in hospital, 132 in ICU, and 71 on ventilators and there last few weeks have seen falling case numbers at really strong rates, which indicates that the vaccinations do stop the spread.

You'd think that this is the rational conclusion to draw, but conspiracy theories are like the Black Knight: it doesn't matter how many fatal cuts they suffer, they never die. The success of the vaccination program will be used against it: "They said it would kill a lot of people but it didn't, so we know Covid was a hoax". And anti-vaxxers will try to credit Ivermectin, Vitamin C and sunlight for the better-than-expected hospitalisation data. It really doesn't matter if you lose the war as long as you get to rewrite history to say you won.

[LP]

You'd think that this is the rational conclusion to draw, but conspiracy theories are like the Black Knight: it doesn't matter how many fatal cuts they suffer, they never die. The success of the vaccination program will be used against it: "They said it would kill a lot of people but it didn't, so we know Covid was a hoax". And anti-vaxxers will try to credit Ivermectin, Vitamin C and sunlight for the better-than-expected hospitalisation data. It really doesn't matter if you lose the war as long as you get to rewrite history to say you won.

The other more modern day problem is that there is an opportunity to profit.

There are already anti-vaxers posing questions about the hypothetical burden of responsibility if they are refused entry to a venue, or even if they are admitted to a venue and catch COVID off the venue staff! I'm assuming they are preparing for litigation so they can orchestrate the circumstance.

There are some truly horrid humans in the world!

[spf]

Dr. Omar Khorshid discusses: The reality in public hospitals in Australia right now, opening up, and vaccinations.

https://www.ama.com.au/media/dr-omar-kho...-mandatory