CV and mad panic behaviour

[LP]

The politics of Sars-CoV-2 is very interesting, if not a little bit disturbing.

In particular the horror stories coming out of regions that have used Sinopharm and Sinovac, the efficacy is so low the outcome borders on chance, it reminds me of that "street fogging" the Chinese did to scare the public into staying home.

Sinovac, how efficacious is the vaccine? A large phase 3 trial in Brazil showed that two doses, administered at an interval of 14 days, had an efficacy of 51% against symptomatic SARS-CoV-2 infection, 100% against severe COVID-19, and 100% against hospitalization starting 14 days after receiving the second dose

Countries like Malaysia and Indonesia would severely dispute these claims! Even the 14 day interval is highly dubious, it flies in the face of knowledge on how human bodies react to vaccines. Stuff just doesn't normally happen that quickly, never has and probably never will! Keep in mind both vaccines are "weakened whole virus" vaccines, that is the work at the same rate as the virus, not much much faster. So how can it be that they are administered in 14 day intervals when a Sars-CoV-2 infection might even be asymptomatic or undetectable after just 14 days? To get natural or vaccine immunity, you have to get infected, develop resistance/response and fight it off, then begin to recover before you'll even have a detectable presence of long term T-Killer cells.

It's perhaps another potential error along the same lines of Israel's 21 day vaccine cycle.

[ElwoodBlues1]

As if anyone would trust a Chinese Vaccine.....I think even Kim Jong turned it down and preferred the Russian sputnik version complete with rocket fuel additive. Nth Korea of course have zero cases......

[LP]

As if anyone would trust a Chinese Vaccine.....I think even Kim Jong turned it down and preferred the Russian sputnik version complete with rocket fuel additive. Nth Korea of course have zero cases......

It's not really the vaccine efficacy that is the issue, it's the idea it works with two doses at a 14 day interval, that suggests the efficacy figures for the specific promoted 14 day regime are a tad rubbery.

[Mav]

How about these ideas to counter the campaign to circumvent the vaccine passport system via exemptions:

• provide that only doctors who have consulted with a patient in person can issue an exemption (which will prevent anti-vaxxers using go-to doctors en masse via the TeleHealth system);
  
• require doctors who are asked by a patient to issue an exemption to record a refusal (to avoid doctor shopping);
  
• require patients who have been refused an exemption with a right to appeal to a medical panel;
  
• provide that no exemption is effective until it's registered (which will enable authorities to keep track of doctors who hand out exemptions like candy);
  
• enable the panel to call on all patients who obtained exemptions from problematic doctors to show why their exemptions shouldn't be revoked (or require them to submit to a review by a panel of doctors);
  
• empower the panel to ban particular doctors from issuing exemptions.
  

[LP]

Presenting a fake certificate works against the anti-vaxers own agenda, so we do not need excessive validation, they want to go without certificates not promote the use of fake certificates. Faked certificates just make the anti-vaxers appear to the general public like an even smaller minority than they already are!

I think there is already enough governance, after all anti-vax doctors are also a minority, and all the other doctors do not want to be put at risk.

[Mav]

And yet anti-vaxxers have used dodgy exemptions to avoid MMR vaccination requirements since day dot. The issuing of exemptions should be closely regulated. Let’s face it, someone with a fair dinkum medical condition which makes vaccination problematic will have a pretty obvious medical history to rely upon; someone who has no history but seeks an exemption anyway should be put through their paces. That's also true of workcare and TAC claims: some cases will be obvious while others will be scrutinised much more carefully. 

[LP]

And yet anti-vaxxers have used dodgy exemptions to avoid MMR vaccination requirements since day dot. The issuing of exemptions should be closely regulated. Let’s face it, someone with a fair dinkum medical condition which makes vaccination problematic will have a pretty obvious medical history to rely upon; someone who has no history but seeks an exemption anyway should be put through their paces. That's also true of workcare and TAC claims: some cases will be obvious while others will be scrutinised much more carefully.

But they are exposed by that behaviour, it is only a cheat when nothing happens.

It is interesting how Sars-CoV-2 is going to change things, the widespread adoption of rapid PCR is going to allow health investigators to more routinely locate patient zero in all cases of viral infection, not just during a pandemic. Then the question becomes an issue of legal liability, because the chain of infection will be known with each person in the transmission chain leaving a little imprint of themselves on the virus they shed which acts like a fingerprint.

Who gets it from Agnes?
.....
I got it from Agnes
She got it from Jim
We all agree it must have been
Louise who gave it to him

[Mav]

The notion there's no point imposing a vaccine system because there are ways around it flies in the face of other government programs. The most obvious comparison is to underage use of fake identity cards to gain entry to licensed premises. That has been going on since time immemorial. Rather than taking the view there's no point continuing that prohibition, governments across the world have refused to back down. on the other hand, one would hope that governments take a less punitive approach against kids: treating them as naughty boys and girls is a better way to go.

A similar observation can be made about the "War on Drugs". For over 50 years, the US Govt in particular has been fighting a losing battle against drug use. But no government has managed to make much of a dent in the drug trade. If you want drugs, you can get them. A harm minimisation model would make more sense, but the prohibition model still reigns supreme.

Then you have the black economy. The fact no government can kill off that way of avoiding the tax system doesn't mean it will be permitted any time soon.

You also have systems which are more analogous to the vaccine passport system. Where the vaccine passport system seeks to protect health and life (and encourage vaccination), rules that restrict access to compensation schemes and welfare programs seek to protect taxpayer dollars and encourage working. To me, protecting health is more important, but let's not get stuck on that issue. Rules are adjusted to make it harder to rort the system, often reaching the point of trying to humiliate and frustrate people out of staying within the system. I doubt those who are dismayed by a system being created which seeks to make life hard for those who try to rort the vaccination passport system would be so aggrieved by the strategies used to make life hard for the unemployed or injured workers.  It boils down to saying the good ol' boys and gals who are worried about their "freedom" are more sympathetic than the unemployed or injured workers. 
 

[LP]

Just listened to a nurse on the radio pleading with adolescents and other young adults to take Sars-CoV-2 seriously. It seems some of the wards are starting to fill with people who didn't need to be vaccinated because "COVID doesn't hurt young people!", maybe they won't die but that doesn't mean they won't be harmed!

Not sure where that nurse was situated, I missed the start of the interview.

Globally, I believe the long term COVID effects in youth are similar to the long term effects of Glandular Fever or Hepatitis in teenagers, which some significant portion of them suffering very long term health impacts, and even some who may be partially debilitated for life! :o

[LP]

The notion there's no point imposing a vaccine system because there are ways around it flies in the face of other government programs. The most obvious comparison is to underage use of fake identity cards to gain entry to licensed premises. That has been going on since time immemorial. Rather than taking the view there's no point continuing that prohibition, governments across the world have refused to back down. on the other hand, one would hope that governments take a less punitive approach against kids: treating them as naughty boys and girls is a better way to go.

I'm not arguing against a system, I'm arguing that the measures and penalties in place already for such misbehaviour are enough!

Usually, it's not the lack of a law but the lack of implementation that burns society, a bit like the rules in AFL, eh?