CV and mad panic behaviour

[ElwoodBlues1]

Shawny was posting about deaths.

I think we have to distinguish between attempts and deaths.......20 less deaths doesnt mean more attempts.
This link might show more what Shawny is alluding too with regards mental health and Covid.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-25/o.../100242310

[LP]

I think we have to distinguish between attempts and deaths.......20 less deaths doesnt mean more attempts.
This link might show more what Shawny is alluding too with regards mental health and Covid.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-25/o.../100242310

I doubt it means anything but less.

That linked article gives you no baselines, you can't tell if it's a rise, fall or flat.

When the deaths are counted in the many hundreds, for a process that has a relative low completion rate, you aren't going to see a sudden statistical shift in the percentages. If only 1:10 attempts are successful, and my understanding is that is roughly the figure, and there is a drop in deaths by 40 or 50 doesn't that mean by association hundreds of less attempts?

The various groups debating working from office or home are telling us the bulk of employees are happier now they aren't in the office 5 days a week. One large organisation I deal with are telling me productivity is up, the only people unhappy, the ones losing out are the corporate psychopaths who have lost their overview of staff.

I'm not sure what to think, I accept it's way way more complex than our simple analysis can surmise, but the numbers do not lie.

[PaulP]

The correct approach is to provide proper resources and support services for the most vulnerable and those most at risk. The correct approach is not to let people run free, because those support services aren't there. If we hadn't had decades of penny pinching scoundrels running the show and worshipping the almighty bottom line, this wouldn't be an issue.

The focus should not be on whether lockdowns are creating an increased risk, the focus should be on why around 700 Victorians take their own life, even before covid. Lockdowns are an evil because they present an increased risk ? What about the myriad of other evils and failings that give rise to so many tragic deaths ? Why aren't we capable of producing children that develop into fully functional, fully developed adults, physically, mentally, emotionally and spiritually whole ?

[PaulP]

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health...a0391b0653

You should read the whole story to get a fuller picture, but a fair whack of those calls to the helpline are from kids in abusive households.

[shawny]

Pls don't tell me you're implying the friends and family of the 800 who died from Covid suffered no negative mental health effects.

Of course I'm not but im also not agreeing that COVID deaths or illnesses in this country are a big cause to MH issues.  Anyhow each to their own on that point as its impossible to factual about it.

My point in my original post was meant to be directed to the issues or by product of how Covid is dealt with and that IMO restrictions would be much better handled if they were directed at the sick and the elderly who are the main group at danger here instead of a blanket restriction which is having a much bigger effect on the young then the risks this particular virus itself has on those in the other group.

The effect on our youth is profound with the way this is being handled and frustratingly its generally glossed over. As I said all the media talk is over dramatized, all negative, scary and bloody depressing for those who don't battle MH yet there is no stopping or pulling back by anyone regardless of how the pandemic is tracking at a particular time. Even when we seem to get on top of an outbreak instead of maybe talking about something else they will find a 'possible exposure site' to spread fear and make those thinking we can get on with a normal life back to worrying again.

Its way over the top and can be reduced or balanced without it affecting the Covid plan but may very well help those young in our community that are really doing it tough.

Im not going to go into details as its too personal but i can assure you i am speaking from personal experience with this one.     

[northernblue]

Limit your media exposure.

[Baggers]

I doubt it means anything but less.

That linked article gives you no baselines, you can't tell if it's a rise, fall or flat.

When the deaths are counted in the many hundreds, for a process that has a relative low completion rate, you aren't going to see a sudden statistical shift in the percentages. If only 1:10 attempts are successful, and my understanding is that is roughly the figure, and there is a drop in deaths by 40 or 50 doesn't that mean by association hundreds of less attempts?

The various groups debating working from office or home are telling us the bulk of employees are happier now they aren't in the office 5 days a week. One large organisation I deal with are telling me productivity is up, the only people unhappy, the ones losing out are the corporate psychopaths who have lost their overview of staff.

I'm not sure what to think, I accept it's way way more complex than our simple analysis can surmise, but the numbers do not lie.

Well said, Oh Spotted One.

Commenting on suicide, attempted, contemplated or otherwise, is a tricky business as without demonstrating compassion and empathy you could easily come across as cold-hearted or glib. (Talking about me commenting, not you, Spotted One... your words were well chosen).

At the concern of dragging out tired old information, as I have shared on this forum, I am someone who has experienced going to that very bleak place including during our extended lockdown. As an aside, I share this information, perhaps ad nauseam, as you never know who might be reading it for the first time and it just might help them - that is my motive (and don't worry, there are times I share my story of survival and horror and it bores the shizen out of me... but it aint about me, its about who may benefit).

Anyway, I point out that the article said, 'seriously considered.' And that got my attention. Now here is where I have to be delicate and not come across as debunking or trivialising. There are a couple of big steps after 'seriously considered'. 'Seriously considered' tells me someone is likely anxious, depressed and/or feeling that they're trapped or have no options... it's still big steps to the next stages. Many folks at various times of their lives think about sewerage pipe as a way to stop the hurt/escape etc, but statistics on those who 'seriously consider' and then actually go to the next step or two would be very interesting, perhaps even dramatic. Fortunately, though, and though stressed to the max and inadequately resourced & supported, we have brilliant mental health supports in this country; brilliant people in this country to aid folks through dark times. I was not surprised to see that the actual suicide figures for last year were not all that different to the year before. Again, I stress, that is not to downplay the horror of successful and attempted suicide and the valid concern and action to do more for those feeling this way - that's a given.

Often, kinda like C19 taking the elderly, infirmed, immune compromised folks etc, lockdowns can be the last straw for some already struggling with mental health issues. They're brittle, like yours truly, to begin with so stepping over the edge is not such a big move - but that could be anything, to motivate to the next step, not just lockdowns. Improving mental health awareness and support mechanisms is imperative. It has to be a huge priority to support folks during any and all periods in their lives when they 'seriously consider' removing themselves from planet Earth and you'll no doubt find other very concerning issues to deal with, as I mentioned earlier. Personally, as concerned as I am about folks 'seriously considering' sewage pipe during lockdowns (so concerned that I put my dosh where my gob is and actually help out)... I am deeply, very deeply concerned about domestic violence during lockdowns - the damage that does to thousands, annually, is often for life... and generational.

[LP]

Limit your media exposure.

Yes, very very good advice, especially if you are not prepared to do the cross checking work needed to verify what is reported.

Professional media irresponsibly paint a pictures to suit their revenue stream and politics, social media, Facebook, Instagram, Tic Tok, is an order of magnitude worse than professional media!

Unfortunately, the era of a reliable and responsibly media is long long gone!

[LP]

Well said, Oh Spotted One.

Commenting on suicide, attempted, contemplated or otherwise, is a tricky business as without demonstrating compassion and empathy you could easily come across as cold-hearted or glib. (Talking about me commenting, not you, Spotted One... your words were well chosen).

At the concern of dragging out tired old information, as I have shared on this forum, I am someone who has experienced going to that very bleak place including during our extended lockdown. As an aside, I share this information, perhaps ad nauseam, as you never know who might be reading it for the first time and it just might help them - that is my motive (and don't worry, there are times I share my story of survival and horror and it bores the shizen out of me... but it aint about me, its about who may benefit).

Anyway, I point out that the article said, 'seriously considered.' And that got my attention. Now here is where I have to be delicate and not come across as debunking or trivialising. There are a couple of big steps after 'seriously considered'. 'Seriously considered' tells me someone is likely anxious, depressed and/or feeling that they're trapped or have no options... it's still big steps to the next stages. Many folks at various times of their lives think about sewerage pipe as a way to stop the hurt/escape etc, but statistics on those who 'seriously consider' and then actually go to the next step or two would be very interesting, perhaps even dramatic. Fortunately, though, and though stressed to the max and inadequately resourced & supported, we have brilliant mental health supports in this country; brilliant people in this country to aid folks through dark times. I was not surprised to see that the actual suicide figures for last year were not all that different to the year before. Again, I stress, that is not to downplay the horror of successful and attempted suicide and the valid concern and action to do more for those feeling this way - that's a given.

Often, kinda like C19 taking the elderly, infirmed, immune compromised folks etc, lockdowns can be the last straw for some already struggling with mental health issues. They're brittle, like yours truly, to begin with so stepping over the edge is not such a big move - but that could be anything, to motivate to the next step, not just lockdowns. Improving mental health awareness and support mechanisms is imperative. It has to be a huge priority to support folks during any and all periods in their lives when they 'seriously consider' removing themselves from planet Earth and you'll no doubt find other very concerning issues to deal with, as I mentioned earlier. Personally, as concerned as I am about folks 'seriously considering' sewage pipe during lockdowns (so concerned that I put my dosh where my gob is and actually help out)... I am deeply, very deeply concerned about domestic violence during lockdowns - the damage that does to thousands, annually, is often for life... and generational.

[member=61]Baggers[/member]‍ thanks for the very personal objective summary, so many of us are only distant observers.

You're probably aware of what goes on around suburban football clubs in the headspace issue, one of my own boys has lost three mates from his junior or senior teams. There is an organisation run by some parents who come and talk to clubs as a match day function, I can't overstate the importance of those efforts, talking about it, and how gruelling it is on those who present no matter how many times they repeat the exercise. So many are at a loss on how to proceed, but it's certainly the case that talking is the significant first step.

I'm glad to be still reading your posts.

[Baggers]

Limit your media exposure.

To echo the Spotted One, that is top advice. And in my mental health talks that is near number 1 on my list of suggestions (for mental health).