CV and mad panic behaviour

[LP]

Considering how few covid cases and how few covid deaths we've actually had the vaccine can't have a degree of failure that is as high as reported.

We are batting at 909 deaths off 29112 positive cases.

Off 25 million people thats tiny, so if this vaccine is even moderately dangerous then we are likely to cause more damage than we solve with it at the moment.  That could easily change but you know what I mean.

That doesn't mean the rest of the population will never get COVID, the vaccine prevents future infections the past is almost irrelevant when compared to the potential of COVID over the coming months.

Most deadly thing might be complacency!

[Thryleon]

That doesn't mean the rest of the population will never get COVID, the vaccine prevents future infections the past is almost irrelevant when compared to the potential of COVID over the coming months.

Most deadly thing might be complacency!

I did say that this could change.

You also assume that people who get covid get symptoms and get tested and are confirmed positive.

The ratios could be worse or better than advertised depending on false positives and false negatives or even people who are positive dont get sick and don't get tested.

You give 25 million people a vaccine and if its 1 in 1000 that end up with a problem you condemn 25000 people guaranteed to potentially save 1 in God knows how many positive who are also categorised as high risk and likely to kick it.

Its like driving yourself crazy trying to stop yourself from going crazy.

Might as well just let yourself go crazy and be done with it.

Note this isn't me stating we should let it rip.  I think what we are currently doing is a perfectly fine approach sans vaccine.

[Baggers]

Personally I'd chuck coppers in that group, they deal with all the awful things in our world for two tenths of SFA.

Absolutely. Sorry about that. Coppers, absolutely, got some really good copper buddies here on the Island. And although they might come under the general carer/medico heading... ambos - champs.

[LP]

You give 25 million people a vaccine and if its 1 in 1000 that end up with a problem you condemn 25000 people guaranteed to potentially save 1 in God knows how many positive who are also categorised as high risk and likely to kick it.

That's 0.1% of vaccinations if it's correct, but the global stats suggest the chance of severe reaction is even lower.

The figures just for COVID-19 deaths, not including severe illness and long term COVID-19 effects, is 2000%(20x) worse! The global death average is 2.2%, for 25 million infections that is 550,000 deaths or 2200% worse than your vaccines kill example!

Using severe reactions to the vaccine as the argument just doesn't make sense, because so far the vaccines are proving 100% effective at reducing or eliminating severe COVID-19 cases, so even if your are correct that's a 2190% improvement!

COVID-19 is a Corona virus, the same as the common cold, everybody gets it sooner or later, all 25.5 million of us! Which is why the scientists are now working hard on a generic broad spectrum vaccine that has a chance of working against any variant of coronavirus.

The "do not get the vaccine it's not safe" argument, is akin to arguing against car seat belts because they only save 98% of car accident victims.

[ElwoodBlues1]

That's 0.1% of vaccinations if it's correct, but the global stats suggest the chance of severe reaction is even lower.

The figures just for COVID-19 deaths, not including severe illness and long term COVID-19 effects, is 2000%(20x) worse! The global death average is 2.2%, for 25 million infections that is 550,000 deaths or 2200% worse than your vaccines kill example!

Using severe reactions to the vaccine as the argument just doesn't make sense, because so far the vaccines are proving 100% effective at reducing or eliminating severe COVID-19 cases, so even if your are correct that's a 2190% improvement!

COVID-19 is a Corona virus, the same as the common cold, everybody gets it sooner or later, all 25.5 million of us! Which is why the scientists are now working hard on a generic broad spectrum vaccine that has a chance of working against any variant of coronavirus.

The "do not get the vaccine it's not safe" argument, is akin to arguing against car seat belts because they only save 98% of car accident victims.

Putting on a seat belt isn't going to harm you, getting a jab with a vaccine that nine countries have pulled might.
The herd immunity theory demands that some of the herd have to be sacrificed... why not keep those sacrificial numbers lower by using the safer vaccines and not the one that is the cheapest, easiest to store and distribute. It's clear the astrazeneca is the worst of the vaccines, why are we being forced into having it when other countries have suspended or scrapped it.
Why are we not waiting for the Novavax or JJ one dose variety...because they cost more to buy and store?

[LP]

The herd immunity theory demands that some of the herd have to be sacrificed... why not keep those sacrificial numbers lower by using the safer vaccines and not the one that is the cheapest, easiest to store and distribute. It's clear the astrazeneca is the worst of the vaccines, why are we being forced into having it when other countries have suspended or scrapped it.
Why are we not waiting for the Novavax or JJ one dose variety...because they cost more to buy and store?

Because they aren't necessarily better or safer, and each day that passes does take a fiscal toll.

I'm glad you pointed out that the natural herd immunity approach initially preferred by some requires a sacrifice, Viking style I suppose!

Still serious side effects or death from vaccine derived immunity would be just a fraction of the deaths or serious effects of gaining herd immunity but natural means.

[member=57]ElwoodBlues1[/member]  What is the evidence that either Novavax or J&J is safer and / or cheaper?

[LP]

Putting on a seat belt isn't going to harm you, getting a jab with a vaccine that nine countries have pulled might.

Not putting a seal belt possibly kills you, and perhaps also indicates your propensity to take risks that kill others, like not getting a jab!

[madbluboy]

https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe/thre...57aj3.html

[LP]

https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe/thre...57aj3.html

In the UK, they seem to think some regions where politics have overtaken science are cherry-picking correlations, because the the numbers do not show more than expected.

Phil Bryan, head of the UK Medicines and Healthcare Products Regulatory Agency (MHRA) said reports of blood clots so far didn't exceed what would have occurred naturally in the vaccinated population.

"Available evidence does not confirm that the vaccine is the cause," he said.

More than 11 million doses of AstraZeneca's vaccine have so far been administered across the UK.

As I've mentioned before, a lot of politics in all this, EU countries profit from Pfizer and Novavax as they are made for the EU within the EU, but not so much from AstraZeneca as it manufacturing is distributed globally. J&J vaccine was developed by Janssen (Netherlands) has partnered with Merck (Germany and Belgium), so again Merck make in the EU.

The alerts and reactions do not match the level of risk exposed in the stats.

[madbluboy]

LP you don't think we're playing politics considering AstraZ is what we have invested the most in?

It would be a disaster if it had to be canned.