CV and mad panic behaviour

[capcom]

Where was this?  The first Australian jabs are happening now.

Baggers went on to posting a clarification.  The lady lived in the UK

[ElwoodBlues1]

Did you ever see the tv series "Fortitude " ?

No Cookie, think I read something about being set in the Arctic or similar...is it a Zombie series?

[cookie2]

No Cookie, think I read something about being set in the Arctic or similar...is it a Zombie series?

Not a zombie series but is set in the Arctic. It is very relevant to your woolly mammoth story but I won't spoil the plot in case you want to watch it. I really enjoyed it.

[ElwoodBlues1]

Not a zombie series but is set in the Arctic. It is very relevant to your woolly mammoth story but I won't spoil the plot in case you want to watch it. I really enjoyed it.

Ok, will check it out...

[DJC]

Did you ever see the tv series "Fortitude " ?

Great series and, yes, we should be worried  :

[Baggers]

If only we could somehow have a good C-19 news feed... ie "In the past week, 9 million people globally received their Covid vaccine shot with no severe ill effects. The 11 million from the week prior report good health... etc."

Instead, the 2 that dropped dead make the headlines and the anti-vaxxers leap on that information with absolutely no knowledge of the health status of those adversely affected by the vaccine.  :

I read that Israel is getting close to 35% of their population having been inoculated.

[LP]

I read that Israel is getting close to 35% of their population having been inoculated.

I believe that is an old total, they have already hit 50% but the published figures will lag the activity.

If only we could somehow have a good C-19 news feed... ie "In the past week, 9 million people globally received their Covid vaccine shot with no severe ill effects. The 11 million from the week prior report good health... etc."

Instead, the 2 that dropped dead make the headlines and the anti-vaxxers leap on that information with absolutely no knowledge of the health status of those adversely affected by the vaccine.  :

There isn't strong evidence many people were adversely affected at this stage it's just coincidence needing further investigation, although it is expected that like any vaccine some will have a serious reaction. But the risk is so low it's negligible, to date with millions already vaccinated it appears to be even lower risk than most pre-existing vaccines, and very low compared to the risk of not being vaccinated.

I find the vocal anti-vaxxers are mostly individuals who protest pretty much anything and everything.

You will note today's AO media about jeering a vaccination reference is a nice example of media negligence, the media court controversy because it rates, so they publish articles about the boos ignoring the equal or louder applause. The anti-vaxxers will only acknowledge the boos, because fundamentally they act to recruit not to inform, also keep in mind the crowd is about 25% Djoker boosters, the player who many regard as the king anti-vaxxer himself!

[Thryleon]

If only we could somehow have a good C-19 news feed... ie "In the past week, 9 million people globally received their Covid vaccine shot with no severe ill effects. The 11 million from the week prior report good health... etc."

Instead, the 2 that dropped dead make the headlines and the anti-vaxxers leap on that information with absolutely no knowledge of the health status of those adversely affected by the vaccine.  :

I read that Israel is getting close to 35% of their population having been inoculated.

Baggers, I will point out one inconsistency of argument here, that worries me somewhat.

If you or your loved one was directly affected by an administration of the vaccine, how happy would you be about it?

NOTE:  when the anti vaxxers advocate a "let it rip" argument with respect to COVID, because it only affects a fraction of the population adversely (figures not quoted, as I am not an advocate of this approach) the argument is much the same.

It really isnt as simple as anti vax, pro vax etc.  In this case, people are right to be skeptical.  Apparently the Pfizer vaccine has not even been granted FDA approval, and is only being administered thanks to state of emergency powers.  I understand that this is somewhat necessary evil, but it doesnt sit much better with me.

[Thryleon]

Before anyone goes on the offensive with me, I am abstaining from having an opinion, but just providing balance to these arguments now.  Its not a popular position, and it generally doesnt sit well with many, but my approach isnt one of arguing who is right, but trying to work out what is right.

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concer...drome.html

Guillain-Barré syndrome (GBS) is a rare disorder where the body’s immune system damages nerve cells, causing muscle weakness and sometimes paralysis. While its cause is not fully understood, the syndrome often follows infection with a virus or bacteria. Each year in the United States, an estimated 3,000 to 6,000 people develop GBS. Most people fully recover from GBS, but some have permanent nerve damage.

GBS and the link to flu vaccine

In 1976, there was a small increased risk of GBS after swine flu vaccination, which was a special flu vaccine for a potential pandemic strain of flu virus. The National Academy of Medicine, formerly known as Institute of Medicine, conducted a scientific review of this issue in 2003 and found that people who received the 1976 swine flu vaccine had an increased risk for developing GBS. The increased risk was approximately one additional case of GBS for every 100,000 people who got the swine flu vaccine. Scientists have several theories about the cause, but the exact reason for this link remains unknown.

There have been several studies of the risk of GBS after flu vaccine and CDC monitors for GBS during each flu season. The data on an association between seasonal influenza vaccine and GBS have been variable from season-to-season. When there has been an increased risk, it has consistently been in the range of 1-2 additional GBS cases per million flu vaccine doses administered.

Studies suggest that it is more likely that a person will get GBS after getting the flu than after vaccination. It is important to keep in mind that severe illness and death are associated with flu, and getting vaccinated is the best way to prevent flu infection and its complications.

This is where it becomes problematic to understand and why I don't denigrate people who think they are standing up for the right thing.

We actually dont have good data surrounding this virus, what it can do, and we arguably wont have good data for quite some time about any long term adverse affects of administration of a vaccine that was hastily developed in light of the pandemic situation.

Anyone advocating either position with absolute certainty is simply confessing that they have a confirmation bias, and their opinion should be heeded with caution.  At this stage, no one really knows what will happen on a large scale with both the virus, and the vaccine and I think thats the only real position people should be taking with respect to all of this.

There is every chance that vaccine might be worse than the virus, and vice versa, and only time and studies will tell the story, not an assertion of facts on a forum like facebook, youtube, or the carlton supporters club forum.

[LP]

NOTE:  when the anti vaxxers advocate a "let it rip" argument with respect to COVID, because it only affects a fraction of the population adversely (figures not quoted, as I am not an advocate of this approach) the argument is much the same.

Not at all, firstly the idea that a vaccine is solely responsible for a demise is laughable, and secondly the numbers are drastically different.

Up until today, 205,000,000 COVID vaccinations have been issued, yet the sensationalist media and anti-vaxxers highlight a handful of correlated incidents that could be severe reactions.

"Letting it Rip" would be the equivalent of putting the mutating virus on steroids and expecting a good result. It's a complete misunderstanding of how a virus evolves in relation to how immunity develops. The sort of immunity the anti-vaxxers claim will come from a release requires global deaths to be in the 8 and 9 digit category, 10 or 100 times more than now!

It really isnt as simple as anti vax, pro vax etc.  In this case, people are right to be skeptical.  Apparently the Pfizer vaccine has not even been granted FDA approval, and is only being administered thanks to state of emergency powers.  I understand that this is somewhat necessary evil, but it doesnt sit much better with me.

All the current vaccines are approved for emergency use after Stage III trials testing vaccine on 10,000 to 40,000 individuals in double blind, which bypasses Stage IV where perhaps it is required to specifically test vaccine on 100,000 or more individuals are required. But by accelerating the roll-out of emergency use Stage IV is effectively already being conducted in many regions. It's wrong to consider people as guinea pigs when vaccinated in Feb 2021, because some regions have been vaccinating since Dec 2020, it's just that each region has sovereignty over it's own approval process. But globally due to the very high numbers of people already vaccinated the trial is effectively done.

Testing 10,000,000 over 3 months is functionally the same as testing 2,000,000 over a year or 1,000,000 over two years with a good safe margin. Humans struggle with the math because it doesn't fit with personal experience. These are numbers a regular deliberate trial can only dream of!

Keep in mind the anti-vaxxers and media are referring to incidents that happened within minutes or hours of being vaccinated. How many hours have passed for those individuals already vaccinated, I don't know how to do that calculation but it will be billions of hours!

Some vaccines have been given permission to Challenge test, which makes this Stage III and IV process effectively redundant, but is not consider as scientifically rigorous as there is no double blind trial.

Despite the rare events that relate to specifics, this vaccine is already statistically safer than driving, flying, eating nuts, smoking, drinking alcohol, sunbaking, climbing a ladder, taking a shower, having a bath. I realise this doesn't fit with some people's experience, but you can't debate the math, it just is!

You might die, I might die, coincidentally or just because of the injection, or because of anaphylactic shock, but you are more likely to die trying a new food or restaurant this week!