CV and mad panic behaviour

[LP]

I dont know if you've realized but the bigger and more answers you write, the less im reading.

As I stated my position to Flyboy77 once before, when he was posting conspiratorial social media founded rubbish, there is no chance I'll ever let that sort of thing slip by, because it's too dangerous to innocent people!

At least I've made my position clear and stand by it, arguing using whatever facts are available, not just opinion supported by opinion. I mean this whole argy-bargy started because I asked what evidence you would accept, I didn't even push that much to ask you what evidence you have to support your claims, I don't need to!

You are painting yourself [member=105]Thryleon[/member]‍, I've no need to paint or spin anything!

[LP]

There are two valid reasons why Thry has a point about waiting and watching....the safety of the vaccine and unknown side effects as well as the effectiveness on a world scale.

I don't question that [member=57]ElwoodBlues1[/member]‍, as I stated to [member=105]Thryleon[/member]‍ getting vaccinated is a personal choice.

I don't think there is any evidence that the vaccines are unsafe, there may be a lot of social media opinion, Instagram and Facebook conspiratorial suspicions, but no reputable evidence that I can find that the vaccines aren't safe, not a skerrick.

Now almost 50M vaccine shots have been issued globally, Israel started almost 2 months ago and that is 5M people or about 50% of it's population, do you think that is not enough time or people to be building a case for or against! For me that is good enough evidence that the vaccine is safe, the reports are that where those vaccines are issued the infection and death rates are falling dramatically, for Thryleon it isn't enough. He wants more time, but more time comes at a risk also it isn't a free hit, do you think that risk of delay is a price worth paying? So I've asked a very simple question, what evidence does he require to accept that the vaccine is safe, in effect he answered nothing can be offered that can convince him! It's all there in the record of posts, or should I say isn't there in the record!

Can you answer that same question, what evidence do you require, when will you believe the vaccines are safe?

[cookie2]

Read yesterday that the Germans are now considering use of the Russian vaccine (Sputnik)? May be due to supply problems for other vaccines in Europe.

[PaulP]

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/tennis/call...570ct.html

[LP]

Read yesterday that the Germans are now considering use of the Russian vaccine (Sputnik)? May be due to supply problems for other vaccines in Europe.

It could be about supply, there is also a lot of politics and social management happening and this might be more about economics than anything else. Under EU rules EU countries have an obligation to trade with other EU nations, it might just be Russia using it's EU position to derive income via the vaccine. It might be purchased by Germany and never used, but that clears Germany of it's EU obligation, and would perhaps allow Germany to donate the vaccine as part of it's other international obligations.

There are not many published papers available regarding the Russian vaccine, it's a closed shop, I presume to get to the point of purchase somebody reputable must be doing a formal approval somewhere.

[Baggers]

I don't question that [member=57]ElwoodBlues1[/member]‍, as I stated to [member=105]Thryleon[/member]‍ getting vaccinated is a personal choice.

I don't think there is any evidence that the vaccines are unsafe, there may be a lot of social media opinion, Instagram and Facebook conspiratorial suspicions, but no reputable evidence that I can find that the vaccines aren't safe, not a skerrick.

Now almost 50M vaccine shots have been issued globally, Israel started almost 2 months ago and that is 5M people or about 50% of it's population, do you think that is not enough time or people to be building a case for or against! For me that is good enough evidence that the vaccine is safe, the reports are where those vaccines are issued the infection and death rates are falling dramatically, for Thryleon it isn't enough. He wants more time, but more time comes at a risk also, do you think that risk of delay is a price worth paying? So I've asked a very simple question, what evidence does he require to accept that the vaccine is safe, in effect he answered nothing can be offered that can convince him! It's all there in the record of posts, or should I say isn't there in the record!

Can you answer that same question, what evidence do you require, when will you believe the vaccines are safe?

I don't think any vaccine, ever, has been 100% safe. There are always individuals, as few as they may be, who will have an adverse reaction. I vividly recall those recruit school days at HMAS Cerberus when all us newbies had to line up for our inoculations. And the lines consisted of about 200 or so young blokes, left arms bare, ready for the jabs. There was always three or four 'fainters' and the odd one who'd end up in sick bay for a few days. And we were given 3 shots at the same time, Yellow Fever, one I've forgotten and TB. I remember feeling a little crook for a day or two. Every now and then you'd hear of a bloke who had such a bad reaction he was discharged out of the Navy into a public hospital for special care.

It's not hard to see why so many folks are still skeptical of inoculations. We live in a world where we spend half our time sorting bullshizen information from truth. Plus we have so many different psychological types with their attitudes to science... from paranoid mistrust to blind faith. Likewise, governments.

Fortunately, as mentioned previously, we do have choice. Personally, I will have my shot when available for a variety of reasons as mentioned previously. Plus, my confidence is science is somewhat boosted by the effectiveness of my own experiences in PTSD treatments etc.

[DJC]

Yet still spread it to no one else even those he lives with?

Do you guys not understand how ridiculous this sounds even if it is plausible?

Even when it comes from the head of the international quarantine organisation?

Symptom and infection variability are features of COVID - according to the scientific literature.

For example, the latest quarantine worker to test positive has a very low viral load and is unlikely to be infectious.

[DJC]

I don't think any vaccine, ever, has been 100% safe.

A young woman I worked with had her daughter vaccinated against polio but it resulted in the little girl contracting a mild form of polio.  As a result, the little girl had limited use of her legs and couldn’t walk unaided.  It was heartbreaking, particularly when the father pissed off and the young woman had to give up her job to care for her daughter.

Of course, the probability of that happening is minuscule but there is always a risk.

I will be getting my COVID vaccination as soon as it’s available.

[LP]

I don't think any vaccine, ever, has been 100% safe.

100% correct, like eating nuts or eggs, or driving a car.

Actually that is wrong, for in most cases a vaccine is far far safer than driving a car or eating nuts.

There was always three or four 'fainters' and the odd one who'd end up in sick bay for a few days. And we were given 3 shots at the same time, Yellow Fever, one I've forgotten and TB. I remember feeling a little crook for a day or two. Every now and then you'd hear of a bloke who had such a bad reaction he was discharged out of the Navy into a public hospital for special care.

True, but if you get zero reaction the vaccine probably isn't do anything beneficial, the reaction is the sign it is working. Of course a severe reaction is a problem as already mentioned.

Of course if the vaccines were as bad as the disease as some try to make out, you wouldn't be getting a handful of anecdotal cases, out of approximately 50M vaccinations you'd be getting tens of thousands of severe reactions. Not something anyone can hide!

[LP]

For example, the latest quarantine worker to test positive has a very low viral load and is unlikely to be infectious.

Yes it's quite interesting, I read an article recently that also raised issues with the validity of the 14 day quarantine when operating rolling quarantine. People moving in or out of quarantine at different stages from the same location. The call was for quarantine in batches, but to do that effectively you need a separate isolated facility for each day of arrivals on a first in / first out basis. Is there anywhere in the world operating quarantine this way?

I did read that specific hotel floors are now being designated, the State Government is spending $M on altering ducting and airflow in these hotels, or shutting down whole floors when they share some circulation.