CV and mad panic behaviour

[flyboy77]

And here's an update on UK/Ireland....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mboEkVl9ooc

It's a scam/plan there too.

[flyboy77]

It's interesting to note that Prof Carl Heneghan is professor of evidence-based medicine but he never retracts or revises his articles when new and/or evolving evidence shows that he is wrong.  Of course, his articles aren't peer reviewed and he is paid to write stuff that hooks in readers.

An acquaintance of mine, in his early 50s and with no underlying health issues, contracted COVID-19 earlier this year in the UK.  He spent 90 days in hospital, 75 of those in a coma.  I doubt whether he will ever get back to normal.

I will be wearing a mask, social distancing, washing my hands and generally following the advice of Prof Sutton and his team.

Please provide an example (related to CV19) where Heneghan should have retracted ( or whatever) his work?

Peer review, it's a circus. All but worthless - as the science shows.

https://www.vox.com/2015/12/7/9865086/pe...e-problems

[LP]

Peer review, it's a circus. All but worthless - as the science shows.

I suspect from your own perspective this appears 100% correct, but to many of us you seem to have a penchant for picking out bogus predatory journals, unqualified opinions dressed up as a peer review, and mostly very poorly referenced and misunderstood meta data analysis as a scientific studies.

So I suspect it's not the science that has the problem!

[northernblue]

Denys science, then claims “science” supports their position... ?
Nice work Dennis ?

[Thryleon]

We have a whole bloody world to draw data and experience from.

Yes, we are lucky the virus never really got going here - thanks largely to the fact we're an island a long way from anywhere.

If you think lockdowns fixed 'Dan's little f... up' , you're kidding.

It was beaten well before any of the Stage 3 or 4 measures had any effect - yep, social distancing, quarantining the sick (only) basic hygiene and a dose of common sense are ample - as long as numpties like those who run Victoria aren't derelict in their duties.

as they were, often.

Im calling you out on your hypocrisy here.

If you don't like what is being written by anyone, then go for it.

A world of data, yet different strains in different nations, with different biology and different impacts to population.

You might want to have a good hard think about what is what.  Dan's stuff ups as you call it may have caused a wave, but that asserts something that seems to be a fallousy, and let me show you that for a moment.

Had we better quarantine procedures, there would be no second wave.

Yet, in hospital settings, with PPE being worn, we have examples of the virus infecting hospital staff.

Ergo, the quarantine scenario handled 100% properly might have yielded the exact same result over a longer period of time.  It automatically disqualifies your assertion about the quarantine.



"it was well beaten before the measures"....

Its possible the virus was hidden in the community spreading silently.  Therefore this assertion is also nothing but an unprovable assertion.

Yes, we are lucky to live in an island nation, and yes it didnt really get going, but you are asserting that widespread infection occurred irrespective because of stuff ups, so which one is it hypocrite?  It got out of hand because of stuff ups or it didnt get out of hand because of stuff ups, and we are lucky because we are an island?

Can you not see how you continue to run arguments in a fashion where you have a bet each way and call yourself the winner and everyone else the loser??

last I checked the United Kingdom isnt connected to any mainland.  keep that in mind with their 100s of 1000's of cases and their lockdowns.

Lucky they arent an Island I guess...

[LP]

[member=105]Thryleon[/member] Are we wasting time debating the ill, perhaps the better strategy is empathy and gentle steering rather than combative debate?

If we look at the wider trend, disputing authority, cherry-picking news media and social media opinion, the problems and solutions become self evident.

Where does the psychosis come from, how to understand it, how to help those suffering from it?

The weight of science won't win this debate no matter how probable the evidence becomes, because true science is never certain, and the denial exists outside of science yet like the cherry-picked facts it is wrapped in fragments of scientific language and context. Ironically it's the certainty with which the science evidence is denied that exposes the error.

I can't help but feel the Trump Flip is universal, if circumstance bite like they did for Trump, the attitude will temporarily flip like Trump, then after / if recovery occurs, it flips again this time to highlight the recovery in difference to those who didn't! Of course it is true this happens, nobody outside of those seriously disturbed want to die from a case of COVID, but of course some do die as by the time the denial is overcome by concern it's too late! That is the evil in the social media debate, it's increases the death rate, words kill!

From your own perspective, you see the irony in those who argue against action from an economic rationalist perspective, demanding hospital based remediation as the better economic choice! It's a bit like Trump and Musk moving people to Mars as a cheaper alternative to addressing climate change! :o

[Mav]

Being an island continent helps because there’s a body of water between us and infected countries.

The US is in a continent separated from China and European countries by a body of water. The UK is separated from China and European countries by a body of water.

So why are the US & UK facing exponential growth of Covid when Australia isn’t? Maybe the body of water thing isn’t such a great differentiator.

[LP]

So why are the US & UK facing exponential growth of Covid when Australia isn’t? Maybe the body of water thing isn’t such a great differentiator.

On this UK issue, my UK associates would assert freedom to speak is not by definition freedom to speak rubbish.

Freedom to speak rubbish isn't a freedom at all but a form of peer group based oppression which results from the consequences of parroting out rubbish!

They seem to think that the UK and USA suffer this equally, and they get very strong support in the above hypothesis from many associates who have emigrated to the UK or USA from totalitarian or socialist regimes!

I note the language surrounding the Victorian lock-down, the "Dictator Dan" stuff, seems to be very very similar!

Words kill, words expressed in stupidity are even more lethal! It's not stating something wrong that is the problem, it's the stubborn refusal to accept a statement was wrong in the presence of over-arching evidence that is stupid and lethal.

[capcom]

It is a big difference given the relative distances and ease of travel access.  Moreover, our comparatively tiny population; i.e. Canada and the United States radically different death rates.  Multitude of reasons

[LP]

PCR
PCR can be considered analogous to a dogs sense of smell, acute and accurate, it can identify something from a trace.

When a dog detects a fox, it's the dog's sense of smell that detects that first trace, just one of the dogs many built in senses(tests) of a fox. Then the dog's eye, ears, teeth and taste buds confirm it's about to bite on a fox and not just a log the fox once sat on! Those other senses, the other tests the dog can do, determine the truth about the dog's detection.

When deniers or sceptics concentrate on PCR as a critique of Sars-CoV-2 testing. They expose a deeply flawed and fundamental lack of understanding how test, trace and diagnosis work. PCR is potentially just the smell of a virus, there are a host of other tests that confirm the diagnosis, lab tests, scans, observations from medical professionals, it is just that PCR is very very effective at detecting a trace of Sars-CoV-2.