Who Will You Support?

[LP]

Early onset dementia ?

No, but from a different era, all was fair game but not all thought so!

[laj]

You can add what Neil Balme did to Geoff Southby and what that did to Southby as a player still riles me, could never support a Richmond team in any game.

I long got over it. Southby has no issues with Balme either. I could handle Balme at Carlton if that were to theoretically happen.

[PaulP]

No, but from a different era, all was fair game but not all thought so!

His hit on Southby was a dog act in an era full of dog acts, some of which were perpetrated by those in Navy Blue.  I'd pay double the going membership fee to have a quality operator like him at the club. If he's not helping us win a flag, he's helping some other mob. The past can't be changed. Chest thumping and holding grudges won't change the past and won't help us now.

Balme or Brad Lloyd ? Jesus.................

[LP]

His hit on Southby was a dog act in an era full of dog acts, some of which were perpetrated by those in Navy Blue.  I'd pay double the going membership fee to have a quality operator like him at the club. If he's not helping us win a flag, he's helping some other mob. The past can't be changed. Chest thumping and holding grudges won't change the past and won't help us now.

Balme or Brad Lloyd ? Jesus.................

Where do you draw the line, at Whatever it Takes, I've heard that before!

[PaulP]

Where do you draw the line, at Whatever it Takes, I've heard that before!

No, not whatever it takes. I'm not suggesting anything illegal or immoral. I understand there are many CFC supporters who detest Balme, and in a way I do as well. But if Walls can forgive him, and he was actually there, the rest of us should take stock and understand that sometimes if you want to improve, you simply have to move on from the past. Trying to show that you're real Navy Blue by hating on Balme 46 years after the fact is good for populists, but not convincing for the rest of us.

[LP]

No, not whatever it takes. I'm not suggesting anything illegal or immoral. I understand there are many CFC supporters who detest Balme, and in a way I do as well. But if Walls can forgive him, and he was actually there, the rest of us should take stock and understand that sometimes if you want to improve, you simply have to move on from the past. Trying to show that you're real Navy Blue by hating on Balme 46 years after the fact is good for populists, but not convincing for the rest of us.

I think that is very oversimplified, like forgiving Clarkson or Milburn, some might even think Dangerfield tunnelling of Judd wasn't just an accident!

I suppose it is how you judge individual incidents, what the legacy of those events were, some would argue Balme should have been charged by police and probably would be in modern times!

Gaff might have been lucky not to be charged, if the incident had been judged purely on events he probably should have been charged.



There is no room in the game for this stuff, having kids and their friends who play at a high level makes me acutely aware of it. I'm not sure time qualifies as a medium for forgiveness, I'm not sure time heals all wounds, if it does why isn't Jack or Fev back, has Judd turned the other cheek?

[PaulP]

I think that is very oversimplified, like forgiving Clarkson or Milburn, some might even think Dangerfield tunnelling of Judd wasn't just an accident!

I suppose it is how you judge individual incidents, what the legacy of those events were, some would argue Balme should have been charged by police and probably would be in modern times!

I don't think it's oversimplified at all. Many on here would fall over themselves if Clarkson was our coach, but Balme is a no go zone. Why ? Because with Clarkson you can directly connect success with the person, but with Balme you can't ? Because Southby was and is a favourite son and a club champion, and Ian Aitken was a bit of a nobody ? Because the Battle Of Britain was on foreign soil ? What's the difference ?

If you cross off your list every opponent who has ever wronged a Carlton player, what's left ?

[LP]

I don't think it's oversimplified at all. Many on here would fall over themselves if Clarkson was our coach, but Balme is a no go zone. Why ? Because with Clarkson you can directly connect success with the person, but with Balme you can't ? Because Southby was and is a favourite son and a club champion, and Ian Aitken was a bit of a nobody ? Because the Battle Of Britain was on foreign soil ? What's the difference ?

If you cross off your list every opponent who has ever wronged a Carlton player, what's left ?

Your debating the extreme using inclusive language, many does mean every, all or the majority, and nobody is suggesting every player who wronged Carlton is a no go, just look at Diesel and The Hyphen history!

But I think Balme's and Clarkson's acts were a reasonable point of demarcation for many!

What about Bootsma, if he surfaces a decade from now as a potential super-coach/administrator, is he forgiven?

I wouldn't rule out Hodge for what he did to sMurph, or Ziebell for what he did to Simmo, because to me they are acts of extreme brutality face on and at the fringe of fairness. Like the Mumford tackle Wallsy blew up about a few weeks back. These are things that heal in time, not like what Balme did, Clarkson did or Bootsma is accused of!

[PaulP]

Your debating the extreme using inclusive language, many does mean every, all or the majority, and nobody is suggesting every player who wronged Carlton is a no go, just look at Diesel and The Hyphen history!

But I think Balme's and Clarkson's acts were a reasonable point of demarcation for many!

What about Bootsma, if he surfaces a decade from now as a potential super-coach/administrator, is he forgiven?

There's little point in getting tripped up over a couple of minor words. You know full well the point I'm trying to make.

Every person on this planet has the potential for redemption, and the potential to learn from past mistakes and not repeat them.  Every single one. But first they have to want redemption, and second they must know how to achieve it. If Bootsma can do both those things, then yes, why not ?

[LP]

There's little point in getting tripped up over a couple of minor words. You know full well the point I'm trying to make.

Every person on this planet has the potential for redemption, and the potential to learn from past mistakes and not repeat them.  Every single one. But first they have to want redemption, and second they must know how to achieve it. If Bootsma can do both those things, then yes, why not ?

Are there are some things that have no possible reparation, and without reparation is there still the possiblity of redemption, or even with reparation is there certainty of redemption?

Some might consider Bootsma's alleged acts beyond reparation in any frame of reference, I suppose this also raises the debate of the equality of voice. It would seem to me in that relative frame of reference we are not all equal, and the decision to open the door to the redemption of Balme might be Southby's alone as the sole person who has probably earned the right of veto, Walls or our opinions mean nothing!

What about contrition, has Balme offered any, is that the first step?