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(05-21-2019, 03:50 PM)JonHenry link Wrote:Oh so it’s only a premiership that means it worked.
If that’s the case, we need to find our next coach cause this bloke ain’t winning us a flag
One swallow doesnt make a summer.
We spent all of one season reasonably challenging for top 4 (2011) and in that season there were signs we were not quite up to it and we finished 5th.
We were 5 and 1 in 2012.
Our results over a longer period of time indicate that the football club was building towards that period and then during that period failed to get the future planning part of that equation correct.
This explains why we are finishing where we are over the last 5 years. We thought a handful of first round picks would save the club last time and some of our fans are behaving the same way now and that's why they want the coach sacked.
In reality it's much bigger than one coach. It's the inability to stay the course on a 5 year plan for starters.
"everything you know is wrong"
Paul Hewson
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05-21-2019, 10:22 PM
(This post was last modified: 05-21-2019, 10:24 PM by LP.)
Notice in his presser McKay stated (paraphrasing);
"They don't want to be driven by the media, they want the response to come from within!"
This answer relates to their last three performances.
Put that in context of fans saying the media commentary and our clubs silence in the media makes no difference! Fans are in complete fantasy if they think players are either indifferent or immune to the crap people like Barrett, Hunchy, Bartlett, Darcy, Ling, McGuire, etc., etc., dish out!
Our club officials choosing to staying mum are really only making an excuse for their own discomfort in the media.
"Ruck, ruck, ruck, ruck ....... Ruck, ruck, ruck, ruck"
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I agree. I'm also sensing a shift in mood from some fans (probably many). At some stage (maybe already for some) members will call this year a write-off. But also at some stage members will question whether it is worth continuing to pour their hard earned dollars into a club that looks like it is going backwards (from finishing 18th with a % in the 60s, that's not easy to do!). The club needs to be sedning the right messages to members and supporters in these dark times, or some (many) may be lost for good. Not to mention what this is dooing to our young supporters, for some this is all they've ever known
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(05-21-2019, 08:05 PM)Thryleon link Wrote:One swallow doesnt make a summer.
We spent all of one season reasonably challenging for top 4 (2011) and in that season there were signs we were not quite up to it and we finished 5th.
We were 5 and 1 in 2012.
Our results over a longer period of time indicate that the football club was building towards that period and then during that period failed to get the future planning part of that equation correct.
This explains why we are finishing where we are over the last 5 years. We thought a handful of first round picks would save the club last time and some of our fans are behaving the same way now and that's why they want the coach sacked.
In reality it's much bigger than one coach. It's the inability to stay the course on a 5 year plan for starters.
The club still had a far more successful period under Ratten, so you have to say moving Pagan on was a success.
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(05-22-2019, 02:16 AM)JonHenry link Wrote:The club still had a far more successful period under Ratten, so you have to say moving Pagan on was a success.
The club didn't defend Ratten in the spotlight of a media barrage of weasel words, twisted facts and spin, and it's doing the very same to BB right now!
A lot has changed, but a big chunk hasn't, it's not the coach that needs changing because any coach we get in will suffer the same fate!
"Ruck, ruck, ruck, ruck ....... Ruck, ruck, ruck, ruck"
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(05-22-2019, 03:56 AM)LP link Wrote:The club didn't defend Ratten in the spotlight of a media barrage of weasel words, twisted facts and spin, and it's doing the very same to BB right now!
A lot has changed, but a big chunk hasn't, it's not the coach that needs changing because any coach we get in will suffer the same fate!
Makes you think who is actually the project manager/director of the rebuild?? Is it being run as a project? It is not clear to me when I think about it. It was conceived, designed and authorised before the arrival of BB (he was brought on staff to be one of the implementers, as head coach) but by who? SOS has been publicly identified as another key player, as Head of Recruitement/List Manager. What exactly is Liddle's role in it? Who is the project director, if there is one?? The Judge? Does the board act in this role? We know our team is not winning but are there many other factors in play here apart from BB's coaching? How are they being managed? It seems very murky to me.
Reality always wins in the end.
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(05-22-2019, 02:16 AM)JonHenry link Wrote:The club still had a far more successful period under Ratten, so you have to say moving Pagan on was a success.
By selling the future to get access to the best player in the game who walked in and set standards our club was miles behind setting.
Remember the story of Judd ordering salad whilst everyone else ordered fish and chips?
We had no idea then, stuffed ratten when we probably should have given him his 5th year, and then found out he was probably the only thing working at the time.
I'm yet to concede that pagan was sacked fairly in the face of what he had to work with too, and perhaps we wouldn't be in this mess if we hadn't.
"everything you know is wrong"
Paul Hewson
05-22-2019, 07:44 AM
(This post was last modified: 05-22-2019, 07:47 AM by Lods.)
(05-22-2019, 06:14 AM)cookie2 link Wrote:Makes you think who is actually the project manager/director of the rebuild?? Is it being run as a project? It is not clear to me when I think about it. It was conceived, designed and authorised before the arrival of BB (he was brought on staff to be one of the implementers, as head coach) but by who? SOS has been publicly identified as another key player, as Head of Recruitement/List Manager. What exactly is Liddle's role in it? Who is the project director, if there is one?? The Judge? Does the board act in this role? We know our team is not winning but are there many other factors in play here apart from BB's coaching? How are they being managed? It seems very murky to me.
From what we've been able to gather, there was a meeting of "influential figures" around the beginning of 2014 that decided on the rebuild approach.
So at a club level it was probably MLG, Trigg, maybe McKay
SOS was targeted as the list manager (although he may have had some input prior to that) and then the coach was appointed.
The framework and direction was set before Bolton came on board.
Bolton was probably happy with the senior opportunity....but we'll never know how he would have progressed things given a free reign.
Strangely enough we were even discussing a rebuild on this forum all through the early part of 2014, so it was in the wind even back then....a year before it was official.
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(05-22-2019, 07:44 AM)Lods link Wrote:From what we've been able to gather, there was a meeting of "influential figures" around the beginning of 2014 that decided on the rebuild approach.
So at a club level it was probably MLG, Trigg, maybe McKay
SOS was targeted as the list manager (although he may have had some input prior to that) and then the coach was appointed.
The framework and direction was set before Bolton came on board.
Bolton was probably happy with the senior opportunity....but we'll never know how he would have progressed things given a free reign.
Strangely enough we were even discussing a rebuild on this forum all through the early part of 2014, so it was in the wind even back then....a year before it was official.
Bolton qualified well for the job, was developing young talent at Hawthorn who are a successful club, teacher...kids are his go in terms of coaching.
Anyone could have coached the Hawks for the 5 games he had them so that doesnt factor in IMO.
Unknowns were his tactical game day nous, ability to construct a brand/game style and develop leaders...jury out on all three IMHO.
Another job IMHO he has is to reduce the unhealthy reliance on Cripps.
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(05-22-2019, 08:28 AM)ElwoodBlues1 link Wrote:Bolton qualified well for the job, was developing young talent at Hawthorn who are a successful club, teacher...kids are his go in terms of coaching.
Anyone could have coached the Hawks for the 5 games he had them so that doesnt factor in IMO.
Unknowns were his tactical game day nous, ability to construct a brand/game style and develop leaders...jury out on all three IMHO.
Another job IMHO he has is to reduce the unhealthy reliance on Cripps.
Couple of things re. Bolton....
Nobody came with him. Goodwin joined Melbourne - Melksham / Hibberd came across after him. No assistant coach or player joined him (as far as I remember). David Teague has a better track record of pulling blokes across with him.
Also - how much gravitas / pull does he have with attracting experienced players to the club? I'm thinking not much.
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