If Not BB, Who?

[PaulP]

All facts need to be seen in context, facts used to win arguments are simply bullets being fired to prove a point are just being used to reinforce an already held preconception. Facts should be used to enlighten not prove. The reality is that we have played a top 4 side, a top 8 side and a top 12 side in the first three weeks. We played Richmond with there whole fab 4 and haven't been anywhere near as good without them, we played Port away and we played Sydney at Etihad which actually suits them, I would have liked to have got them on the bigger MCG. Gold Coast on the other hand have played 3 bottom six sides. Clearly we have played better than last year but we still haven't won anything. This will be our second interstate trip and travel is more difficult for Victorian sides than non-Victorian sides because interstate travel would be built into a non-Victorian sides normal processes. Gold Coast will be our first bottom six side whereas we will be there fourth. Clearly the Membership and the supporters are backing the Club at the moment which is demonstrated by the attendance and the Membership numbers, however we really need to win.

Nice post BM. I'm one of the few who's not fussed about winning at this point. My hope is that we stay injury and trouble free and can get our best 22 out there most weeks. We need to see if the team can gel and if this rebuild is legit or not. My hope is that we can jag a few wins after the bye with our best 22 playing regularly.

[madbluboy]

How are you judging how strong teams are?

Are Melbourne a top 4 side?

[laj]

But Bolton was the coach in 2017 ! Doesn't that tell you something ? Do you think he's forgotten how to coach ? Don't tell me you think "he's lost the players" ?

Simple thinking.

Tells you he's not taking the next step and we're heading backwards. Once he had to get out of our defensive way we were playing early on he was lost. Ceased to get the best out of the players. That's been obvious. Game plan we have no idea of, we are very poorly drilled. 3 wins out of 35, what does that tell you. There's no argument there. That is diabolical. Fact is he's sent us backwards in 2 years. You point to what you want, I'll put to the scoreboard.

[laj]

All facts need to be seen in context, facts used to win arguments are simply bullets being fired to prove a point are just being used to reinforce an already held preconception. Facts should be used to enlighten not prove. The reality is that we have played a top 4 side, a top 8 side and a top 12 side in the first three weeks. We played Richmond with there whole fab 4 and haven't been anywhere near as good without them, we played Port away and we played Sydney at Etihad which actually suits them, I would have liked to have got them on the bigger MCG. Gold Coast on the other hand have played 3 bottom six sides. Clearly we have played better than last year but we still haven't won anything. This will be our second interstate trip and travel is more difficult for Victorian sides than non-Victorian sides because interstate travel would be built into a non-Victorian sides normal processes. Gold Coast will be our first bottom six side whereas we will be there fourth. Clearly the Membership and the supporters are backing the Club at the moment which is demonstrated by the attendance and the Membership numbers, however we really need to win.

Facts are 3 wins out of 35. Goes beyond this year. We've been full of honorable losses since the start with no progression.

[PaulP]

Simple thinking.

Tells you he's not taking the next step and we're heading backwards. Once he had to get out of our defensive way we were playing early on he was lost. Ceased to get the best out of the players. That's been obvious. Game plan we have no idea of, we are very poorly drilled. 3 wins out of 35, what does that tell you. There's no argument there. That is diabolical. Fact is he's sent us backwards in 2 years. You point to what you want, I'll put to the scoreboard.

Right - so you're the one calling to sack the coach, yet I'm the one accused of "simple thinking."

What his record tells you is that in 3 years of a very deep rebuild, he's had little to work with. Even Clarkson would have struggled to do better. You won't turn the Mullet's and O'Shea's of this world into good footballers and good users of the footy by terrorising them. All the sprays from Clarko, Barassi etc. won't make a difference. Up until now, we cannot, at least IMO, say the problem is the coach. The fun starts now.

[deags]

I'm definitely no fan or honorable losses. I remember thinking during the last game "I am so sick of losing"
I want to be able to start watching games with my son. At the moment Im shielding him from games as I know he wont continue supporting if we are losing every week, and at 6 years old, why would he.
BUT..
Seriously, this is the 4th coach we have had since we were last successful.
When does it become something other than the coach that is causing our losses?
When does it become a folly to keep sacking coaches for lack of results?
4 coaches who have struggled to get the team working properly. That tells me more about the team than it does about just the coach.
We are turning over around 25% of our list each year. That may be one reason we seem to lack cohesion, and why we are struggling to get with a game plan consistently.

[LP]

A couple of seasons back we had a period of ugly wins and losses interspersed with hidings but people complained even louder!

I didn't notice the Swans changing their game plan under Roos when everyone accused them of winning ugly! They basically won ugly for almost a decade, and can attribute a flag to winning ugly 58 - 54! It's probably still one of the best GFs ever, after finishing the season 3rd with the lowest points For out of the top 13 teams!

What would Carlton fans give for an ugly win now?

We've failed because we have let the media set our club's agenda, at least that his how it appears, clearly after being bullied our club changed emphasis in the game plan if not a radical change in total. Since then we've heard some faint praise from the media which leaves me cynical, because I can't say we look closer to a genuine win although cursory appearance is better.

Until we start pissing on the media instead of letting them piss in our pockets we'll not improve. There is a reason they are just media and not AFL players, coaches or administrators. They'd be NFG!

[PaulP]

I'm definitely no fan or honorable losses. I remember thinking during the last game "I am so sick of losing"
I want to be able to start watching games with my son. At the moment Im shielding him from games as I know he wont continue supporting if we are losing every week, and at 6 years old, why would he.
BUT..
Seriously, this is the 4th coach we have had since we were last successful.
When does it become something other than the coach that is causing our losses?
When does it become a folly to keep sacking coaches for lack of results?
4 coaches who have struggled to get the team working properly. That tells me more about the team than it does about just the coach.
We are turning over around 25% of our list each year. That may be one reason we seem to lack cohesion, and why we are struggling to get with a game plan consistently.

I agree. If you start counting from Pagan, it's 5 including Barker as caretaker, whose results were not great either.

As for your son, my 2 cents is to let him enjoy watching GWS play. He'll come around soon enough.

[Lods]

I may be wrong but I vaguely remember we were a finals side, or close to it, from about 2009 to 20013

This has been a deliberate gutting rather than a more moderate transition
That's fair enough but folk have to start taking some ownership of that,

[LP]

I may be wrong but I vaguely remember we were a finals side, or close to it, from about 2009 to 20013

This has been a deliberate gutting rather than a more moderate transition
That's fair enough but folk have to start taking some ownership of that,

Everything done so far we've done to ourselves, nobody can tell me BB changed the game plan due to external media pressure, the pressure to change the game plan came from pressure high up within the club!