2018 Rd 9: Post Game Calm: Carlton vs Melbourne

[JonHenry]

This part time ruck/odd job player started with Jolly and Leigh Brown ...Brown wasnt much of a ruckman but he used to run around cleaning up players and being more of a physical presence rather than providing any ruck stats..

Nankervis does quite a lot of that stuff too.

How I wish Levi participated in that game

[flyboy77]

Not exactly all plodders there.

Not all, but certainly mostly.

[LP]

People get the emphasis wrong when discussing rucks;

Ruck is not the primary role with being a footballer second.

Footballer "is" the primary role, ruck is something that certain footballers do, some do it better than others!

Nankervis is a footballer who rucks, his football stats are often better than Grigg, and Nankervis is a good ruck!

When you are struggling as a footballer, ruck shouldn't be your get out clause! Some KPPs struggling to be footballers seem to use weak attempts at being a ruck as their golden parachute!

Having the wrong emphasis causes you to trade for players like Warnock, mind you prior to Enright putting the fear of god into Warnock with a king hit disguised as a spoil Warnock wasn't too bad as a footballer.

De Koning is the real deal long term, the kid is a footballer who rucks.

[Thryleon]

People get the emphasis wrong when discussing rucks;

Ruck is not the primary role with being a footballer second.

Footballer "is" the primary role, ruck is something that certain footballers do, some do it better than others!

Nankervis is  footballer who rucks, his football stats are often better than Grigg, and Nankervis is a good ruck!

When you are struggling as a footballer, ruck shouldn't be your get out clause! Some KPPs struggling to be footballers seem to use weak attempts at being a ruck as their golden parachute!

Having the wrong emphasis causes you to trade for players like Warnock, mind you prior to Enright putting the fear of god into Warnock with a king hit disguised as a spoil Warnock wasn't too bad as a footballer.

De Koning is the real deal long term, the kid is a footballer who rucks.

Players get given a run on ball (or in the case of struggling forwards) a turn in the ruck to get them involved in the game.

[LP]

Players get given a run on ball (or in the case of struggling forwards) a turn in the ruck to get them involved in the game.

Like I said, ruck shouldn't be your get out clause if you are struggling to hold down your main role.

[Thryleon]

Like I said, ruck shouldn't be your get out clause if you are struggling to hold down your main role.

In our case at the moment, the forwards wouldnt get a sniff if they werent having the odd run on the ball.

Its something that I have seen every club do at some point.

The idea of multi faceted players exists so you can put them somewhere and get value out of them on days when they are struggling and applies to all players unilaterally.

[LP]

The idea of multi faceted players exists so you can put them somewhere and get value out of them on days when they are struggling and applies to all players unilaterally.

Ahh utilitarianism, or otherwise known as the standardisation myth.

That argument just sets up your team to deliver a new level of mediocrity, because by making talented individuals fill roles they are not suited for you end up dragging them down to the level of the list cloggers. When you let a list clogger fill in with some secondary role, it probably means your primary choice is filling some secondary role elsewhere.

Coaches who go down this path are a dead end to ultimate success, and it's a good reason why MM has so few flags from such a long long long career. He was excellent at standardising his team to finish in the upper echelon without having the flair to go that one step further.

There is a good reason Harry Taylor is an AA defender and a very average forward.

[PaulP]

...................................
Coaches who go down this path are a dead end to ultimate success, and it's a good reason why MM has so few flags from such a long long long career. He was excellent at standardising his team to finish in the upper echelon without having the flair to go that one step further.

...................................

To be fair to Mick, in 01 and 02 he came up against one of the greatest teams ever at the peak of their powers. It remains to be seen whether any other coach could have done better. In any other era, he may have ended up with 5 flags.

I do agree with your general principle though. He was workmanlike and seemed to favour honest toilers rather than out and out guns. I think the Pies made 6 prelims in 10 years during the 2000's, which is a great effort, but like you, I also wonder whether he shot himself in the foot by not embracing more flair and class.

[LP]

To be fair to Mick, in 01 and 02 he came up against one of the greatest teams ever at the peak of their powers.

I assume you mean 02 and 03, versus Leigh Matthews.

I know who'd I pick as coach. One was inventive and dynamic in many roles as both a player and coach, the other was a back pocket!

[PaulP]

I assume you mean 02 and 03, versus Leigh Matthews.

I know who'd I pick as coach. One was inventive and dynamic in many roles as both a player and coach, the other was a back pocket!

Yes, sorry, I did mean 02 and 03, versus the great Lions 3peat team.

I don't really want to get into a coaching comparison, but if you compare Matthews' coaching record at the Lions v Pies, the total games coached, and the W-L-D records are uncannily similar. Yet he got 3 flags (and very nearly a 4th) at the Lions, and 1 at the Pies. It must be nice to have elite talent on every line.