2018 Rd 3: Post Game Platitudes: Carlton vs Collingwood

[Thryleon]

Sick of hearing those media grabs like, "Carlton won the I50 count!"

They are meaningless and worthless hyperbole twisting stats.

We spend many minutes of gut busting effort to scramble the ball a few meters inside the F50 arc usually deep in a pocket in a manor best described as a maul. Only to see the opposition sweep the ball from their defense to their goal square within a few seconds in what could be best described as a streak.

The quality of entry means something, and perhaps the ease of the exit means even more!

Yep most of our inside fifties went straight to Jack crisp.

[blue4life]

, but a club starved of any success will loose commercial viability, thus resulting in a do something mentality (rinse repeat)

This is our biggest danger.
The members, being football tragics and incapable of critical thinking, will bay for blood, it remains to be seen whether the current board has the mettle to withstand it and stay the course.
We'll know by the end of this year, it will either be a reasonable chance of recovery and long term success or we'll be consigned to a future as a perennial laughing stock.

[Thryleon]

This is our biggest danger.
The members, being football tragics and incapable of critical thinking, will bay for blood, it remains to be seen whether the current board has the mettle to withstand it and stay the course.
We'll know by the end of this year, it will either be a reasonable chance of recovery and long term success or we'll be consigned to a future as a perennial laughing stock.

Our football club don't care about its members.

Bolton won't be under pressure this season.

You cant trade Gibbs,  lose Docherty to a season ending injury and then declare you have the wrong coach.

It's just not going to happen.

I always stated that the knives will come out for Bolton and that this would be the test of whether or not we have changed as a footy club.

If we go down the usual route of not backing in the coach we'll continue producing the same old same old.

We are playing the long game IMHO and Bolton can't be tried by results at this stage particularly if things are being done right everywhere else.  His game day leaves a bit to be desired but that's it.

[blue4life]

We are playing the long game IMHO and Bolton can't be tried by results at this stage particularly if things are being done right everywhere else.  His game day leaves a bit to be desired but that's it.

I hope that you're right, but our history suggests to me that you may well be wrong.

[flyboy77]

Our football club don't care about its members.

Bolton won't be under pressure this season.

You cant trade Gibbs,  lose Docherty to a season ending injury and then declare you have the wrong coach.

It's just not going to happen.

I always stated that the knives will come out for Bolton and that this would be the test of whether or not we have changed as a footy club.

If we go down the usual route of not backing in the coach we'll continue producing the same old same old.

We are playing the long game IMHO and Bolton can't be tried by results at this stage particularly if things are being done right everywhere else.  His game day leaves a bit to be desired but that's it.

I largely agree with you (for once).

But when is the right time for the Coach to be questioned?

Already we have seen some absolutely poor selections being made ie for the Gold Coast game when Special K was an out and then tactically in Rd 3 when seemingly diddly was done to stop the 10 goal run on the Pies got on....

And let'd be frank, the Pies are about as good/bad as us overall.

[PaulP]

Sick of hearing those media grabs like, "Carlton won the I50 count!"

They are meaningless and worthless hyperbole twisting stats.

We spend many minutes of gut busting effort to scramble the ball a few meters inside the F50 arc usually deep in a pocket in a manor best described as a maul. Only to see the opposition sweep the ball from their defense to their goal square within a few seconds in what could be best described as a streak.

The quality of entry means something, and perhaps the ease of the exit means even more!

Each individual statistical indicator is simply one piece of a bigger picture. Each of them becomes more meaningful in the presence of other statistical indicators.

The I50 count tells you exactly what it is supposed to tell you - how many times in each game we got the ball roughly where we wanted it. This obviously tells you nothing about the way in which the ball got there, nor what happened after it got there. There's other stats for that. But I would not call it useless or meaningless. It gives one small clue about how we played the game, and any clue is useful. The more clues the better.

[blue4life]

But when is the right time for the Coach to be questioned?

I think that the club needs to communicate with the members and supporters and be more open and honest.
If the supporters, members and sponsors feel that they are being genuinely informed about the journey we're on and that the club has a definite and well thought out plan they will be far more likely to support the direction we're taking.
Bolton is learning along with the players and he's certain to make mistakes along the way, but it will be more beneficial if he owns them and learns from them rather than ply us with more of the nauseating spin we've become accustomed to.

[PaulP]

I think that the club needs to communicate with the members and supporters and be more open and honest.
If the supporters, members and sponsors feel that they are being genuinely informed about the journey we're on and that the club has a definite and well thought out plan they will be far more likely to support the direction we're taking.
Bolton is learning along with the players and he's certain to make mistakes along the way, but it will be more beneficial if he owns them and learns from them rather than ply us with more of the nauseating spin we've become accustomed to.

That's easy. "Strap yourselves in and feel the G's. Expected turbulence ahead."

Or for the dainty among us : “Ladies and gentlemen, the Captain has turned on the fasten seat belt sign. We are now crossing a zone of turbulence. Please return to your seats and keep your seat belts fastened. Thank you.”

[Lods]

I think that the club needs to communicate with the members and supporters and be more open and honest.
If the supporters, members and sponsors feel that they are being genuinely informed about the journey we're on and that the club has a definite and well thought out plan they will be far more likely to support the direction we're taking.
Bolton is learning along with the players and he's certain to make mistakes along the way, but it will be more beneficial if he owns them and learns from them rather than ply us with more of the nauseating spin we've become accustomed to.

I'm not sure they didn't do that...
The 'rebuild'  (whether you're a believer or not) was pretty clearly spelt out at the start....there was a bit of resistance from the coach at the time but folks would have been pretty clear that this was supposed to be a change in approach.
The little 'journey' videos along the way have communicated the progress.

The problem for the club is that football is a pretty transparent game based on performance and results.
Improvements in teams or players are pretty easy to spot.
Effort and intensity is fairly easy to judge. (good at times last week, very poor at other times)

Gaps in lists or team selections that remain unfilled raise questions
Other sides progressing at a faster rate also raise questions about an approach.
Stagnation or lack of expected progress cuts deep into any message.
That's the point where questions start and in Bolton's case he's had a bit longer than most of his predecessors.

The funny thing though is all it takes is a couple of good weeks, a lift in confidence, and some of the negatives become less glaring.
That's the tonic we need at the moment.
A win or two is pretty important.

[blue4life]

Valid points Lods.
I think that what the club failed to do was to clearly spell out the state of play at the beginning of the rebuild, as a result I don't think that many of our supporters were fully aware of how far back we were coming from and assumed that two or three years of good recruiting and astute trades would see us competitive.
It's those supporters who will become increasingly frustrated by poor results, but realistically we should expect that it will take closer to five years than three.