AFLW Rd 1: Carlton vs Collingwood at Ikon Park

[mateinone]

Of course there is no possibility that people just don't like the women's game is there?

You can expect a different product and not like that product.

I might think differently about women's football in the future, but at the moment I don't find it interesting at all. I only know the names of a few players because they are on the front page of the Carlton site, but I don't both reading almost any of the women's articles.

I don't want the women's game to be shutdown, I fully support their being a women's competition, I support the AFL putting time and money into the competition in the aim that eventually it will generate it's own revenue streams and give women a similar chance to make a living out of football as men if the public are prepared to put their money behind it.

Personally though, I currently find the game boring. If I had a niece or someone playing, of course I would show more interest, but then I would show interest if I had a niece or nephew playing any sport at the highest level available to them.

All for Carlton having a team, I would just like the option of reading about the team I want to read about.. The Carlton Football Club's AFL team without having to siphon through the AFLW stuff.

It should be something that is easy enough to do as well, have 3 options.. Show All, Show Men's, Show Women's.

The same goes with the AFLX concept.. It might be a fun game, but there are hundreds of sports out there and the team could also play water polo in the preseason and I wouldn't be interested in that either, other than wishing it would go away so the preseason proper can get started.

[Thryleon]

Of course there is no possibility that people just don't like the women's game is there?

You can expect a different product and not like that product.

I might think differently about women's football in the future, but at the moment I don't find it interesting at all. I only know the names of a few players because they are on the front page of the Carlton site, but I don't both reading almost any of the women's articles.

I don't want the women's game to be shutdown, I fully support their being a women's competition, I support the AFL putting time and money into the competition in the aim that eventually it will generate it's own revenue streams and give women a similar chance to make a living out of football as men if the public are prepared to put their money behind it.

Personally though, I currently find the game boring. If I had a niece or someone playing, of course I would show more interest, but then I would show interest if I had a niece or nephew playing any sport at the highest level available to them.

All for Carlton having a team, I would just like the option of reading about the team I want to read about.. The Carlton Football Club's AFL team without having to siphon through the AFLW stuff.

It should be something that is easy enough to do as well, have 3 options.. Show All, Show Men's, Show Women's.

The same goes with the AFLX concept.. It might be a fun game, but there are hundreds of sports out there and the team could also play water polo in the preseason and I wouldn't be interested in that either, other than wishing it would go away so the preseason proper can get started.

I generally hold the same opinion.  Its all just fluff until the real stuff starts, and I hope our AFLX doesnt detract from the main stuff.

Where i think the future of Carlton as a sporting club lies is the european model of operations.  Generally, the sporting clubs in europe are sports clubs, and have teams that are represented in multiple sports.

Sure they have some main events, but you will see the same team name, and same colours being represented in all manner of different sports, starting with Basketball, Soccer/Football, Handball, Water Polo, Ping Pong, both mens and womens varieties, and all manner of other sports that escape me at the moment.  It gives us good news stories about Carlton, gives us something to enjoy in the meantime until the big stuff starts, and we can celebrate a victory against Collingwood in arm wrestling if thats all thats on tv, but generally I see this as the way forward for sporting clubs.

[LP]

I generally hold the same opinion.  Its all just fluff until the real stuff starts, and I hope our AFLX doesnt detract from the main stuff.

I read the highlighted part as you basically holding a mindset that AFLX is in someway competing with the main game.

I might be wrong but that doesn't seem consistent with MIO's position that AFLW is a different sport he just isn't interested in, have I read MIO post wrongly?

If it's a different game/sport then I would think it's not in competition by definition, if over time the newbies garnish media support that is a problem for the AFL, not for AFLW or AFLX.

I'm not trying to force AFLW or AFLX down peoples throat, people are free to choose. But I believe it's clearly wrong to take a line of argument that compares either game to their AFL predecessor. It would be like comparing chess to chequers, only the board they play on is the same!

In particular my position on this stuff has been turned round by watching the WFA in the UK. It's almost a better game to watch than the Premier League, no fat-heads, no diving, no interruptions for video reviews, no players just there for the money, and yet the WFA game is full of skills and speed! No wonder clubs like Chelsea, Manchester and Liverpool are heavily invested in the WFA.

Where i think the future of Carlton as a sporting club lies is the european model of operations.  Generally, the sporting clubs in europe are sports clubs, and have teams that are represented in multiple sports.

Sure they have some main events, but you will see the same team name, and same colours being represented in all manner of different sports, starting with Basketball, Soccer/Football, Handball, Water Polo, Ping Pong, both mens and womens varieties, and all manner of other sports that escape me at the moment.  It gives us good news stories about Carlton, gives us something to enjoy in the meantime until the big stuff starts, and we can celebrate a victory against Collingwood in arm wrestling if thats all thats on tv, but generally I see this as the way forward for sporting clubs.

I think this is self evident, it's about using a resource to it's fullest extent.

[Lods]

I actually enjoy the women's competition and I'm looking forward to the start of the season.
Towards the end of last year it became less of a novelty for me and more an extension of the club in a similar manner to the VFL side.
It was very much "Carlton" for me with the same desire for a win as you would experience watching the men's side...but to each his own.

With that in mind for those that are interested... what format do we want to use for the sites "best and fairest competition."
We just did a 3,2,1 last year and it seemed to throw up a well-deserved winner but some expressed the view they'd prefer a system similar to the one we use for the men's competition.
Anyone keen to take it on as a project.

[LP]

Firstly, I think 3,2,1 is fine. With the girls there is often a clear line between the BoG an the rest, one player having red hot day can win you a game!

On a separate issue, has anyone picked up that there is some innuendo in the media about bad blood between Tayla Harris an the Lions? I noticed that even one of the AFLW captains picked this as the one season game to watch, Tayla playing against her old side. It reminds me of Marc Murphy's debut against the Lions, they told the world they would smash him and they did! :o

[Thryleon]

I read the highlighted part as you basically holding a mindset that AFLX is in someway competing with the main game.

It's using our senior players so it will be effecting them and I'm hoping it won't be adversely effective on our main season.

I might be wrong but that doesn't seem consistent with MIO's position that AFLW is a different sport he just isn't interested in, have I read MIO post wrongly?

If it's a different game/sport then I would think it's not in competition by definition, if over time the newbies garnish media support that is a problem for the AFL, not for AFLW or AFLX.

I'm not trying to force AFLW or AFLX down peoples throat, people are free to choose. But I believe it's clearly wrong to take a line of argument that compares either game to their AFL predecessor. It would be like comparing chess to chequers, only the board they play on is the same!

In particular my position on this stuff has been turned round by watching the WFA in the UK. It's almost a better game to watch than the Premier League, no fat-heads, no diving, no interruptions for video reviews, no players just there for the money, and yet the WFA game is full of skills and speed! No wonder clubs like Chelsea, Manchester and Liverpool are heavily invested in the WFA.

I think this is self evident, it's about using a resource to it's fullest extent.

Shrug shoulders.

I don't know what you read to end up with this but meh for me the main allure of Carlton is watching our team play afl footy and whilst I'm happy for our women's team and wish them every success it is merely a detail.

[LP]

It's using our senior players so it will be effecting them and I'm hoping it won't be adversely effective on our main season.


Shrug shoulders.

I don't know what you read to end up with this but meh for me the main allure of Carlton is watching our team play afl footy and whilst I'm happy for our women's team and wish them every success it is merely a detail.

I don't have daughters, but I can understand why some people are so frustrated with the way women in sport are perceived.

I think they deserve every bit of attention they get without the need to judge them relative to men. I do not see them as halftime entertainment or a curtain raiser there just to fill in the blanks. I'm sure you don't mean to infer that they are just a sideshow.

I see the elite in the girls, even if it is a different kind of elite to the men!

[mateinone]

I don't have daughters, but I can understand why some people are so frustrated with the way women in sport are perceived.

I think they deserve every bit of attention they get without the need to judge them relative to men. I do not see them as halftime entertainment or a curtain raiser there just to fill in the blanks. I'm sure you don't mean to infer that they are just a sideshow.

I see the elite in the girls, even if it is a different kind of elite to the men!

The problem LP is that most people only have X percent of their time to dedicate to their watching of sports. You get the odd person who watches everything they can, but for most people that isn't a reality.
It is why you wont' find many people who watch the AFL, SANFL, VFL, WAFL  etc. It isn't about being a sideshow, but it can be about competing with the quality of the sport. If the best players in the VFL all started playing in another competition it is quite conceivable that people will switch leagues to watch the best players. Not all, but a percentage will for sure, because for a lot of people it is about the quality of the skills on display. The same happens in soccer, with people watching a club like PSG this year, that previously would have paid them little or zero attention. They keep their team they support, but find themselves tuning into the top teams as well.

With me at the moment, I watch the EPL & AFL, I have an interest in the tennis slams, an interest of course in Olympics, a little in the cricket and now with Ben Simmons I am following the NBA more than I have since the 90s. I also have an interest in the men's & women's soccer, but I admit that if the Australian Men were stronger I would pay less attention to the Matildas and openly state that I know far more Australian Men soccer players than I do women of any nationality.

You are right, women do deserve to be more than a sideshow, but with many sports competing for corporate and public dollars, the spectacle must entertaining in it's own right, not 'just as a women's sport'. For some AFLW is absolutely doing that already & there is a serious chance that more people will watch an AFLW game than any other non-olympic event in women's sports history this year... which is amazing!!! But the level of football does need to get much better, the women need to develop much higher skills and athleticism. It matters not to me that most are not full time professionals, because that is the same for most Olympians who need primary jobs.

To me (in the limited amount I have seen) the ball moves slowly there just isn't the intensity & the sport is not any more exciting than watching a local game between 2 teams I don't know. I also don't get the way that commentators tip toe around the issue of players being not fit enough and overweight. If it was male players in any sport they would call it out and surely that should be the case as well, because the fitter the players the more successful the clubs, the better the spectacle etc.. To make this game successful, I think most of the women have a fair way to go with their fitness. Hopefully the chances will be visible every year, I think they will be.

It is of course possible that women will get to an elite level, but I think it is ignorant to the reality if anyone believes that AFLW skills/fitness are not a LONG way from being where it will be in 5 or so years. In 5 years I am hoping the players and public can come back, watch footage of these games and say, yes they were pioneers, but the level of the game was average. That would then mean that women have taken a huge leap.

Whilst it might not be useful to compare the game to the men's game, there is something to be said to comparing women at the top level of other sports and where they might sit in comparison to the men.

Below are some of how I would compare the top females and where they might sit if playing in men's leagues.

I think the Matildas would beat a lot of male league sides at maybe 2 levels below the A-League, perhaps 3?
The top women tennis players could likely beat players outside perhaps the top 600-700 players in the world
I would think the Australian Women's Basketball team could also be competitive in metropolitan division 1 leagues.
The current level of women's football I don't think would get anywhere near a division 2 league team or any top 6-8 team in a Victorian country league. I think in all honestly they would struggle to finish outside the bottom 4 in most Under 18 competitions.

Now I raise this comparison, because I do believe that it shows that if the women can train to an elite level they should be able to get to the stage where perhaps they could challenge at those levels, their fitness alone would be enough to ensure that they could run a lot of those teams off their feet, as well as their better coaching levels etc. In 5 years, perhaps 10, then women might achieve that level of maturity. If they do.. the spectacle will be much better, the movement of the ball will be much quicker and then I believe they will have a sport quite capable of standing on it's own 2 feet.

Anyway, as I have said... I think that the sport will take off, I think it is great that this could create more pathways for more women to become full time professional athletes, but it is important to make sure they are being assessed correctly, especially internally, because if the sport stays at the level it currently is... I think it might struggle to sustain a full paying public's interest.

[kruddler]

On a separate issue, has anyone picked up that there is some innuendo in the media about bad blood between Tayla Harris an the Lions? I noticed that even one of the AFLW captains picked this as the one season game to watch, Tayla playing against her old side. It reminds me of Marc Murphy's debut against the Lions, they told the world they would smash him and they did! :o

I haven't read anything to suggest that, but personally i think it is to be expected. Harris was the Lions marquee player. Plastered all over their merchandise, the face of the club.

Would you be happy if Vescio just up and left?

[kruddler]

I actually enjoy the women's competition and I'm looking forward to the start of the season.
Towards the end of last year it became less of a novelty for me and more an extension of the club in a similar manner to the VFL side.
It was very much "Carlton" for me with the same desire for a win as you would experience watching the men's side...but to each his own.

With that in mind for those that are interested... what format do we want to use for the sites "best and fairest competition."
We just did a 3,2,1 last year and it seemed to throw up a well-deserved winner but some expressed the view they'd prefer a system similar to the one we use for the men's competition.
Anyone keen to take it on as a project.

If its just a 3,2,1 its an easy project to take on and i could do it.
If its more convoluted, my interest in it is less enthusiastic.