Which is kind of the point I'm trying to make.
Yes, the midfield needs work.... that's a separate consideration.
I'm not even overly concerned if changes we make to the forward line doesn't produce short term results.
But for heavens sake try something different.
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(05-24-2017, 08:43 AM)Lods link Wrote:There's a subtle difference in our observations.
My point is that we don't seem to be doing anything with the list we have to address those forward problems.
There are numerous options we could try but we send out the same structure week after week.
Well yes and no.
We don't seem to be doing anything with it...because there is little that can be done without hurting our long term plan.
We are already using Weitering as a permanent forward despite Bolton saying he would only spend brief periods there.
A stable back 6 is highest priority. That is working.
Beyond that..... :-[
(05-24-2017, 09:48 AM)kruddler link Wrote:Well yes and no.
We don't seem to be doing anything with it...because there is little that can be done without hurting our long term plan.
We are already using Weitering as a permanent forward despite Bolton saying he would only spend brief periods there.
A stable back 6 is highest priority. That is working.
Beyond that..... :-[
If a stable back 6 is our priority then Weitering needs to be down back as well.
Long term Rowe and Silvagni wont be around so we're really not putting our future backline out there.
All I'm asking is a bit of variation and experimentation in the forward line.
We're not efficient now so we really have nothing to lose.
To just throw our hands up and say we're not doing anything because we have no options is pretty defeatist.
At least give players like McKay and Kerr a taste....even if it's only a game or two
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(05-24-2017, 10:08 AM)Lods link Wrote:If a stable back 6 is our priority then Weitering needs to be down back as well.
Long term Rowe and Silvagni wont be around so we're really not putting our future backline out there.
All I'm asking is a bit of variation and experimentation in the forward line.
We're not efficient now so we really have nothing to lose.
To just throw our hands up and say we're not doing anything because we have no options is pretty defeatist.
At least give players like McKay and Kerr a taste....even if it's only a game or two
Not sure Weitering will be down back long term. If we have Marchbank, Plowman, Macreadie, Williamson and Docherty there, thats 5. Rowe can play there for another 3-4 years and in the meantime we will draft someone else.
Up forward, Weitering, McKay and Curnow.....Jack and Ben...are our options, none of them certain, especially since Ben isn't on the list yet and McKay hasn't played a game.
Look, i agree we should bring someone in. I agree we should be trying things. But, we have limited options with the direction we are taking.
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Going back to jeza'a point, if we (hypothetically) dispensed with our forward line, and brought in the Crows forward line (Jenkins Walker Betts), and kept everything else the same, what would happen ?
Would they sit in the F50 like spare pr!cks at a Jewish wedding, waiting for half decent delivery (or any kind of delivery), and not look nearly as potent as they do now ?
Would we see an ability to kick higher scores ?
Do our mids subconsciously feel the substandard nature of our forward line (and behave accordingly), and once this change occurs, would they work harder for more and better F50 delivery, because they see a better return for their efforts ?
Is there something in the Crows style and advanced stage of development, that gives them the ability to score 135 points a game ? is it ball speed, is it leg speed, is it cohesion, is it the cattle, is it the coaching ?
If Bolton took over the Crows, would they still be where they are now, playing the way they play ?
Lost of questions that I'm just throwing out there folks.
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@ Paul
As you say, lots of questions lots of hypotheticals. I reckon BB is coaching based on the list he has and the low base it came from. Clearly he has stiffened up that back 6 and asked the team to play the team defence game with alot more focus and discipline. If that personnel was different, ie with our fwd line replaced with the Adelaide fwd tomorrow, he would coach slightly differently I would have thought. Would we win more games? I think we would. Would we make the 8? I think we most likely would. Would we win the flag? Probably not but we would get to where we want to be alot quicker.
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(05-24-2017, 10:41 AM)Gointocarlton link Wrote:@ Paul
As you say, lots of questions lots of hypotheticals. I reckon BB is coaching based on the list he has and the low base it came from. Clearly he has stiffened up that back 6 and asked the team to play the team defence game with alot more focus and discipline. If that personnel was different, ie with our fwd line replaced with the Adelaide fwd tomorrow, he would coach slightly differently I would have thought. Would we win more games? I think we would. Would we make the 8? I think we most likely would. Would we win the flag? Probably not but we would get to where we want to be alot quicker.
Fair points GTC. All of us know the forward line is our weakest link, and I was just trying to think about the problem a little differently.
Just having a look through the ladders since 2000, pretty much all top 4 teams, and certainly all premiers, finish the season with a % over 100 (in some cases well over) and scoring 100+ points for (once again, in some cases, well over). The real exceptions are the Doggies last season (2016 was bizarro world on many fronts), and the Swans and Saints teams coached by Lyon/Roos, which we all know were very defense orientated, stoppage orientated teams.
Clearly, we need to be scoring 100+ to be top 4, and that needs to happen through greater accuracy, greater efficiency, better and more frequent F50 entry, better cattle, the right structure etc.
It's no coincidence that our best performances in the last 15 years have been with a decent forward structure / setup and decent players - Waite, Walks, and the amigos (2 or 3 depending on circumstance).
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(05-24-2017, 12:17 PM)PaulP link Wrote:Fair points GTC. All of us know the forward line is our weakest link, and I was just trying to think about the problem a little differently.
Just having a look through the ladders since 2000, pretty much all top 4 teams, and certainly all premiers, finish the season with a % over 100 (in some cases well over) and scoring 100+ points for (once again, in some cases, well over). The real exceptions are the Doggies last season (2016 was bizarro world on many fronts), and the Swans and Saints teams coached by Lyon/Roos, which we all know were very defense orientated, stoppage orientated teams.
Clearly, we need to be scoring 100+ to be top 4, and that needs to happen through greater accuracy, greater efficiency, better and more frequent F50 entry, better cattle, the right structure etc.
It's no coincidence that our best performances in the last 15 years have been with a decent forward structure / setup and decent players - Waite, Walks, and the amigos (2 or 3 depending on circumstance). understand all that and agree. Dont quote me on the numbers but the formula or statistic for winning the flag is something like scoring 102 pts and keeping your opponent to 84 pts. Something like that.
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Disagree with much of that. Our midfield is a far bigger problem than the forward line...
Fix the midfield, the forward lines all but fixes itself...we're two to three quality mids short.
And Kreuzer, for all his good form, really struggles against the new swathe of rucks considerably taller than him .
put the Crows front 6 in with the way we moved the ball last Sunday after quarter time, we'd score much the same....f... all.
Finals, then 4 in a row!
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(05-24-2017, 09:11 PM)flyboy77 link Wrote:Disagree with much of that. Our midfield is a far bigger problem than the forward line...
Fix the midfield, the forward lines all but fixes itself...we're two to three quality mids short.
And Kreuzer, for all his good form, really struggles against the new swathe of rucks considerably taller than him .
put the Crows front 6 in with the way we moved the ball last Sunday after quarter time, we'd score much the same....f... all.
He would be currently sitting in the top 5 in our B&F so far.
Sure he is not as tall as some of the giants BUT what he gives around the ball that many just don't see is where he value is. Would be nice to have a taller ruckman but then they wont be able to block, smoother, tackle, harass and be that big extra mid around the contest that big Kruezer is.
Until our midfield group changes drastically he is a very important player. Just look at our winning record without him in the side to realise his value to us.
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