Rd 21: Post Game Passion: Carlton vs Brisbane

[laj]

I believe your right, Laj , the twin key forwards has been more successful. So why would Match committee /coach continue with the single key forward option? I mean, ok jones , Everitt Would be the obviously us choices, but they have gone other ways. Sure they see better than we do , so interesting to hear if any one has any inside thoughts on this?
A problem that Levi creates, is that we really labour to get goal kicking opportunities , and when he regularly fluffs them, it must deflate the team moral in general.
With the extra season Charlie & Harry will have under there belt, let's hope they can add to the attack next year to create the twin attack option.

That would be same at Collingwood with Cloke, and even Richmond with Richo. Both a bit better than Levi admittedly.

Anyway, with twin forwards, it spreads the defence more opening it up for others to kick goals. Even if the likes of Jones has a bad day he still takes a man or two, meaning less defenders for Levi and a weaker defender for Everitt and SOS, as the scoreboard attests. We score more easily hence kick alot higher scores, hence the odd miss doesn't deflate as you feel there's another chance around the corner. When struggling to kick 6-8 goals a game, when we had one key forward then those misses hurt.

[DJC]

Good try by Levi. 500k, no a chance. He wouldn't get that anywhere. Give him his due, he's done well given he's  come way off the rookie list and played in  the right role he'll do a good but he's 300k at best, 350k if you really stretched it as a key forward. 300k for me though, certainly not 500k.

The average wage in 2016 is just over $300K and the annual increase is usually just over 5% so we're looking at an average of around $310-315K in 2017.  As we know only too well, key forwards don't grow on trees and that would push Levi's worth up to well above average.

Levi may not get $500K but I suspect his pay packet will be well above $350K.

[laj]

The average wage in 2016 is just over $300K and the annual increase is usually just over 5% so we're looking at an average of around $310-315K in 2017.  As we know only too well, key forwards don't grow on trees and that would push Levi's worth up to well above average.

Levi may not get $500K but I suspect his pay packet will be well above $350K.

Yes, put like that, probably right.

[LP]

The average wage in 2016 is just over $300K and the annual increase is usually just over 5% so we're looking at an average of around $310-315K in 2017.  As we know only too well, key forwards don't grow on trees and that would push Levi's worth up to well above average.

Levi may not get $500K but I suspect his pay packet will be well above $350K.

The average wage in 2015 was about $302K, 2016 is expected to be about $320K and 2017 will be in the $330k range.

[Vivian]

He won't be getting trade unless he chooses to go. Carlton rate him and in the short term, need him. I'm not interested what they average. You can contribute without necessarily scoring. You notice we scored alot more this year when we've had two key forwards playing.

His absence, until the others develop, would be a problem. Problem is we went in alot this year with a structure of one key forward, making life tough for him, not his fault, it's the clubs. Especially after that injury. We've struggled to score. Those that don't understand that blame the player. Imagine if we trade him and have no real key forwards. Notice when he gets help he's alot better? Last year showed that, he was one of the few things to work, yesterday showed it again.

Two key forwards would be grand indeed. Two good ones that is. Casboult is not good enough. He might take a great grab and lead up the wings. League footy is not played like that anymore. Key forwards, if the term has any meaning anymore, must be mobile, double back and work into space to offer marking and scoring opportunities. They need to run more than they ever have.

That is why we play 2 rucks, offering the potential for mobile marking options across the ground.  The fixation with a 2 forward, 1 ruck as a style of play that is the answer is past. Apart from a couple of rucks in goldstein and gawn who have shown they can ruck most of a game, one ruck with a part time forward ruck is rarely effective in building the style that bolton wants. Even goldstein is looking tired later in the season. Our number one ruck in Kruezer is almost busted.

So yes, we do need two forwards. We need more than two of them. Good ones that can play as modern league forwards need to to create scoring opportunities.  Mobility, pressure and second efforts are more important now than height or contested marking prowess. And accurate kicking helps too. We didn't have two good forwards playing yesterday.  Adelaide may approximate the two key forward style that is so often being discussed. But walker and jenkins play in a fashion that casboult is not able to deliver.

Sivagni, despite his youth, played in a way yesterday that is more promising for the future than the traditional key forward lead up marking type.

If we could trade casboult for a low third rounder we should jump at it. Maybe richmond will trade their second round pick to us.

[LP]

I think Casboult is a good option as the 2nd marking target, he's no good when he has the main marking role.

McKay and C.Curnow will be the key to Casboult's retention and success. If they can hold a spot in the 1s Casboult will be a difficult match for anybody.

[Gointocarlton]

No conundrum for me. He upped his value a little on the trade table. He is a liability most of the time as he doesn't work hard enough, failing to get seperation from his opponent. His kicking is horrific. A highlights reel of contested marks is great, but at his age, he is unlikely to improve.

Could imagine a few teams willing to look at him.

The only issue is that perhaps being on the list another year may act as a bridge season so curnow and mckay can develop. But when casboult has only managed a goal a game as it is this year, his absense may not present as much of a problem.

So we trade him away for two tenths of feck all and the team he goes to turns him into a goal kicking machine, that wont hurt a bit.

[laj]

Two key forwards would be grand indeed. Two good ones that is. Casboult is not good enough. He might take a great grab and lead up the wings. League footy is not played like that anymore. Key forwards, if the term has any meaning anymore, must be mobile, double back and work into space to offer marking and scoring opportunities. They need to run more than they ever have.

That is why we play 2 rucks, offering the potential for mobile marking options across the ground.  The fixation with a 2 forward, 1 ruck as a style of play that is the answer is past. Apart from a couple of rucks in goldstein and gawn who have shown they can ruck most of a game, one ruck with a part time forward ruck is rarely effective in building the style that bolton wants. Even goldstein is looking tired later in the season. Our number one ruck in Kruezer is almost busted.

So yes, we do need two forwards. We need more than two of them. Good ones that can play as modern league forwards need to to create scoring opportunities.  Mobility, pressure and second efforts are more important now than height or contested marking prowess. And accurate kicking helps too. We didn't have two good forwards playing yesterday.  Adelaide may approximate the two key forward style that is so often being discussed. But walker and jenkins play in a fashion that casboult is not able to deliver.

Sivagni, despite his youth, played in a way yesterday that is more promising for the future than the traditional key forward lead up marking type.

If we could trade casboult for a low third rounder we should jump at it. Maybe richmond will trade their second round pick to us.

Forwards get up to the wing often all the time.

I think Casboult might be good enough, at least in his own right. Certainly not Buddy or Kennedy but does the job. If anyone thought he could hold the whole forward line up in a crap side as the only key forward and play well needs to understand the game better. Last year we were headed for a higher 2nd rounder but decided to keep him. There was real interest. Carlton rate him, opposition, more importantly, certainly rate and respect him, I think that's what you go by, not by supporter opinion. If you think we should jump at a low 3rd rounder you're a definitely kidding yourself. Club would be smashed again for bad trading taking "unders". How many more players would you like to see play well at other clubs that we give away for bugger all.


SOS is a 3rd tall. Can't rely on a 3rd tall to take the main goal kicking role. Defenders will smash him as he'll take the no. 1 defender. If you know you're footy you'll understand that. We've rarely had big scoring key forwards, even in our great days, Fev excepted, but doesn't mean they can't play well and other forwards feed off it. Last year, Casboult averaged 1.5 a game playing half the year as a permanent 2nd ruck. They average was higher when he played the combined key forward/ruck role in the second half of his year. We had a 2nd key forward and while Henderson was terrible and disinterested no defence could take their eye off him for a second. Meant he took a man or two, freeing up Casboult and Everitt to score, the latter scoring 31 goals. In an awful year those two had good years and hit the scoreboard. Soon as we had a second key forward yesterday Casboult scored 4.2, which really should've been 6. Last time he was allowed to play the forward/ruck role, Collingwood game, he took 11 marks, 7 contested, kicked 3.1. Notably too this year, when we've had two key forward we have scored alot higher as it opens it up for others to score. Everitt hit the scoreboard too. Moral of the story, pick the right structured side and play players to their strengths. Let him go and watch how you miss him. He is needed while our young key forwards develop to take the physical heat. McKay will play games next year so Casboult will definitely be needed to take the physical heat of the defence, or would you like our kids to take that on their own. I'm sure you understand that. Once they develop then we can phase Casboult out, but not before.

[laj]

I think Casboult is a good option as the 2nd marking target, he's no good when he has the main marking role.

McKay and C.Curnow will be the key to Casboult's retention and success. If they can hold a spot in the 1s Casboult will be a difficult match for anybody.

We often dispute alot on Levi but we agree here. He often did well when he was 2nd marking target to Waite and Henderson. At worst we have to have two key forwards as he's not that good that he can hold a forward line up on his own. Levi will be great the heat while McKay develops then as he does, Casboult become  the 2nd key target making him more dangerous.

[ElwoodBlues1]

I think Casboult is a good option as the 2nd marking target, he's no good when he has the main marking role.

McKay and C.Curnow will be the key to Casboult's retention and success. If they can hold a spot in the 1s Casboult will be a difficult match for anybody.

We need a specialist Full Forward who is a straight kick and leads for the ball....Casboult becomes the second option as does the long bomb to a pack and if the ball is bombed more than often it will be the Boult vs his man only rather than every defender hanging off him....the Boult would have enjoyed working with Fev at his peak.