Rd 2: Carlton vs. Sydney: Post Game Passion

[PassIt2Carrots]

Are you saying Judd was a poor leader and that has contributed to Murphy and Gibbs lack of effort?
Really? I would have thought they looked happy to let Judd do most of the grunt work. Let's be honest, neither are Sam Mitchell types and never will be, the problem is nor are they that good on the outside.
Picking and choosing when they attack the footy is their first option, not the hawthorn or Sydney like attack on the footy.
If they had elite skills under pressure, or had blistering speed or kicked 3 or 4 goals every now and then, well great. But..... we just don't get value for money.
I really don't care what number they were drafted, it's what other players in the comp do on much smaller contracts that bothers me.
Stop making excuses for them, if they don't provide value move them on.

In a nutshell. They are not up to being the best players at any club yet they are paid to be our best. I do not think either Gibbs or Murphy stopped us from getting beaten by more on the weekend so what are they doing out there? Move them on, get more early picks, it will most probably not affect our performance anyway.

I understand I've been critical of Murph over the years so many of you would be rolling your eyes etc but I've always said, I call it how I see it. I have backed Gibbs in throughout his whole career (just go to his trade thread I was the only one sticking up for him) but as another poster put, four coaches later, he is weaker than ever. Must trade for perhaps Adelaide's or Port's first rounder.

[Barbs]

In a nutshell. They are not up to being the best players at any club yet they are paid to be our best. I do not think either Gibbs or Murphy stopped us from getting beaten by more on the weekend so what are they doing out there? Move them on, get more early picks, it will most probably not affect our performance anyway.

I understand I've been critical of Murph over the years so many of you would be rolling your eyes etc but I've always said, I call it how I see it. I have backed Gibbs in throughout his whole career (just go to his trade thread I was the only one sticking up for him) but as another poster put, four coaches later, he is weaker than ever. Must trade for perhaps Adelaide's or Port's first rounder.

If you were the recruiting manager at the crows or port would you trade your first round pick for Gibbs on current form? They've both already got good midfield depth who are all currently playing better.
Kerridge couldn't even get a proper run at the Crows - what value would Gibbs be to them?

[PassIt2Carrots]

If you were the recruiting manager at the crows or port would you trade your first round pick for Gibbs on current form? They've both already got good midfield depth who are all currently playing better.
Kerridge couldn't even get a proper run at the Crows - what value would Gibbs be to them?

I'm just hoping one of them is dumb enough to give away a late first rounder, he could provide them with polish, or they may at least think that. You have to ask yourself if he is as good as many on here say, surely he's worth say pick #12?

[cookie2]

I'm just hoping one of them is dumb enough to give away a late first rounder, he could provide them with polish, or they may at least think that. You have to ask yourself if he is as good as many on here say, surely he's worth say pick #12?

Gibbs is a skilled player who would no doubt thrive in a team stronger than ours where the need to do a lot of grunt work would be a lot lower for him. He could emerge as cream on the cake for such a team. I'm sure we could get a good deal for him if we wanted to.

[Vivian]

Are you saying Judd was a poor leader and that has contributed to Murphy and Gibbs lack of effort?
Really? I would have thought they looked happy to let Judd do most of the grunt work. Let's be honest, neither are Sam Mitchell types and never will be, the problem is nor are they that good on the outside.
Picking and choosing when they attack the footy is their first option, not the hawthorn or Sydney like attack on the footy.
If they had elite skills under pressure, or had blistering speed or kicked 3 or 4 goals every now and then, well great. But..... we just don't get value for money.
I really don't care what number they were drafted, it's what other players in the comp do on much smaller contracts that bothers me.
Stop making excuses for them, if they don't provide value move them on.

Only Murphy and Gibbs can contribute to the effort they make, like any player.  My point is that Judd was a brilliant footballer, one of the best I have seen, but he often played footy a bit like a cricketer  - perhaps more as an individual in a team game.  This is no slight on Judd at all - it is who he is, and given his extraordinary ability, one could put him in any side and he would be a class apart.  But he was just one player, no matter how talented and no matter how good, this cannot make up for a huge deficit in the quality of the team and organisation as a whole.

Carlton have suffered from, to paraphrase the coach, a lack of leadership density.  Murphy and Gibbs joined an organization as 18-19 year olds that was utterly lacking leadership and a culture of performance and continuous improvement.  Judd couldn't change much of this, and he did alot of heavy lifting, especially during Ratten's time as coach.

My view is not attempting to make excuses for players, rather understand how the dynamics of a team may have affected players over the years, especially in the context of impacting young inexperienced men just out of school. 

Nevertheless, both Murphy and Gibbs are good footballers, sometimes great.  They are what they are and I hope the club can get the best out of them.  Moreover, the team as a whole, if it lifts just a little as a whole will make more of a difference than either Gibbs and Murphy playing the kind of 35 possession 3 goal 8 tackle games that we wish they were capable of. 

[Gointocarlton]

If you were the recruiting manager at the crows or port would you trade your first round pick for Gibbs on current form? They've both already got good midfield depth who are all currently playing better.
Kerridge couldn't even get a proper run at the Crows - what value would Gibbs be to them?

Gibbs and Murphy would add value as outside mids or fwds at a team already full of grunt and leadership in the midfield. They offer us zero in this dept hence why they would have trade value.

[Professer E]

Gibbs would kill it at the crows as an outside runner and finisher feeding off Sloane, Crouch, Thompson etc.

[cookie2]

Gibbs would kill it at the crows as an outside runner and finisher feeding off Sloane, Crouch, Thompson etc.

Absolutely! Look at the reverse situation with Kerridge - he would be finding more pressure playing for us that he would have dreamed possible at the Crows. I think it was well illustrated v. the Tiggers as he tired in the 4Q.

[mina1]

yes  LP you have heard all before .I started saying we are to slow when we recruited brock maclean and we  had  carrazo,robbo. ellard allthe same pace now fwd to 2016 and i think we have the same situation.

[Inboltswetrust]

I'm just hoping one of them is dumb enough to give away a late first rounder, he could provide them with polish, or they may at least think that. You have to ask yourself if he is as good as many on here say, surely he's worth say pick #12?

I've been reading this thread with some interest.  I actually agree we should put Gibbs on the trade table at the end of the year.  It would be a radical move because he is probably our most gifted ball user in a team that isn't blessed with that type of player, but still worth while doing i think.  Port Adelaide IMO will finish with pick 5 or 6 and I think they would give up that for Gibbs in a heartbeat.  Kenny will think they can still win a flag with a bit of extra cream on the cake.  If we finish bottom (which I think we will unfortunately) with only 2 to 3 wins we would have an argument for a priority pick.  This means we could have picks 1,2 5 and 20 and if you throw in a free agent- say from the bombers (hurley, hibbard etc), it would leave us very competitive in the draft.  I would use picks 1+2 on the best key forwards in the draft (ala Hawks with Buddy and Roughead), pick 5 gets us a great mid (ala Lewis) then trade pick 20 with perhaps Levi to Fremantle to get someone like Mayne and we should be off and running.