Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

[LP]

There cant be 70+ million white supremacists in the US.

Well, white supremacist is probably a bit of a gross generalisation, but they all hate somebody and Trump harvests hate like it's a money tree,

............ er maybe there is the problem!

[Mav]

By the way, Kelly Loeffler, one of the GOP Senate candidates running in the Georgia run-offs, has borrowed from Trump’s playbook. Trump disregarded the 3rd rail of US politics: don’t have anything to do with white supremacists. He suggested there were many fine people of both sides after the tiki torch March and violence  in Charlottesville. He failed to disavow David Duke, saying he didn’t know who he was (despite discussing him previously). He continuously retweeted memes from white supremacy sites.

Loeffler has learnt to parrot Sgt Shultz whenever she has posed for photos with well-known white supremacists:
Kelly Loeffler Keeps Posing For Photos With White Supremacists And Other Extremists, HuffPost:Click HERE.

[Lods]

Well, white supremacist is probably a bit of a gross generalisation, but they all hate somebody and Trump harvests hate like it's a money tree,

............ er maybe there is the problem!

That's true but the thing is he doesn't just engender hate in one side he does it in both.

You know what I think his most effective weapon has been....and I reckon he's done a lot of it accidently, because he's a buffoon.
He's more a Chaplin than a Hitler.
That's not to say there aren't some evil and dangerous influences and ideas that he's triggered.
Dangerous folks that have felt empowered.

But...
He's also taken decent folks on the left with a good social conscience, good principles and a decent wish for a better world and turned them into 'haters',
As a result they hate not only Trump, but have directed that hate towards any that support him.
They deride those supporters, they're dismissive of them, they find them 'deplorable'
Even the ones who voted for him who may have gone into the booths 50/50
All who voted for him are tarred with the same brush.

Now if you tell folks their beliefs are reprehensible you don't change their opinions....you enhance them and you get them angry.
You add to the hate and you don't change their minds.
Now you may argue that it's a legitimate tactic, and it's the end result that matters, that right will eventually win out, but sadly that approach also comes with consequences and no guarantees.
The most likely result is that it drives the problem back underground.
The attitudes and values that folks possess are always there... Sometimes they're just hidden.
Trump doesn't create them, he gives them a voice and rallying point.
The best I think we can hope for is a generational maturity (we see it in the young) ...it's a slower process, but much more lasting and effective.

As far as the Republican party goes....Many in the GOP want Trump out of the way so the 'politicians' can regain control of their party. Like any organisation there are moderates and extremists.
It's a battle they have in the future. How to rid themselves of the Trump legacy yet retain his supporters.
A lot will depend on Trump's immediate future. State courts may take a lot of his attention, but if he's allowed to 'roam free' he is more likely to be disruptive of the party. He's certainly not a unifier.

Just curious...we're a 180+ pages into this thread.
I'd say we're mostly negative in our opinions of Trump
But has anyone really changed their opinion in all that debate.

[Mav]

But...
He's also taken decent folks on the left with a good social conscience, good principles and a decent wish for a better world and turned them into 'haters',
As a result they hate not only Trump, but have directed that hate towards any that support him.
They deride those supporters, they're dismissive of them, they find them 'deplorable'
Even the ones who voted for him who may have gone into the booths 50/50
All who voted for him are tarred with the same brush.

Wow. I think you might be the one tarring with the same brush. I focussed on the fanatics who have signed on to the election fraud conspiracy. But apparently that means that anyone who voted for Trump, no matter how reticently, must be regarded in the same way. If you don’t think Trump’s base is rife with racism, you must have been in a coma for the last 4 years. The election fraud cases have all focussed on heavily black districts and it’s pretty hard to ignore the sentiment that they think blacks were allowed to vote too much.

Trump lost. His supporters lost. I don’t hate them. But I don’t have any sympathy for them. They don’t deserve to be coddled. The joke is they used to laugh at “snowflakes” who couldn’t handle losing to Trump. Now they can show how to handle losing with grace, although they’re not off to a good start.

The racist rump are probably going to be coddled by Biden, though I hope not. His self-image is that he can strike deals with everyone. I can just imagine him saying that he doesn’t want to upset those good folk who just love their Confederate “heritage” and he understands just how hard it is for cops to avoid killing unarmed black men, women and children.

[Lods]

You seem to have taken it personally mav... and I guess in some respects my response was triggered by your comment that his 'main appeal was to white supremacists'
The fact is I'm not sure how 'you' feel about the more moderate Trump supporters...only you know  that.
I'm pleased though that you regard yourself as "decent folk on the left with a good social conscience, good principles and a decent wish for a better world."

No, not all folks on the left feel that strength of antipathy towards Trump supporters.
That's not how I meant that to come across...but many do, and the point I was making is that normally measured folks I know have had feelings bordering on 'hatred' for anything that even smacks of pro -Trump or anyone who supports him.

Of course there is a racist background to his 'core' support.
That's where those 'people' live on the spectrum.
If they vote they're never going to vote Biden.
And yes, Trump does little to call them out as he should.

Yep, Trump appeals to a white supremacist group but he also appeals to conservative folk who may not like some of the changes (actual or proposed) occurring in their lives, average folks with no strong convictions either way but who are not sure about Biden, people who may not have fared so well under Obama but who have done a little better in recent times, folks in industries that they feel are under threat and who believe Trump is still the best option for their futures and  people who feel a little threatened by some progressive social agendas.

With a vote of seventy million plus there were numerous reasons folks voted for Trump...lots of them nothing to do with white supremacy

[Lods]

You know, one of the weird things about political and social threads is this....
Everyone sits on a line between Gandhi and Genghis.
If someone is further up or down the line than yourself you'll get an argument....even if you're in the same half. ;D

[Mav]

The fact is I'm not sure how 'you' feel about the more moderate Trump supporters...only you know  that.

Why would anyone go after them? The strange thing is that Trump never sought to pivot towards the centre and instead played almost exclusively to his base. Biden, like Obama before him, is a centrist who wants to expand his base by adding moderates. He has already welcomed Never Trumpers and would be ecstatic if he could add moderate Trump voters as well. It’s not as though he is ideologically opposed to blue collar workers or those who are struggling.

I even give a thumbs-up to Chris Christie for advocating the use of masks after he caught Covid at the White House and for acknowledging Biden as the President-Elect.

But none of the corrupt Republican politicians who have pushed the bogus election fraud conspiracies should be given a pass even if they try to change their spots after Biden is inaugurated. What they’re doing isn’t business as usual in politics.

And the other group that should hang their heads in shame are:

people who feel a little threatened by some progressive social agendas.

This was exactly my point. Those who feel that their own status is undercut if discrimination is reduced don’t deserve sympathy or coddling. It doesn’t mean they should be hunted down and killed but they need to know they don’t have a right-wing veto over social change. Frankly, I don’t give a damn about their discomfort or feelings but I expect Biden will prefer to explain gently to such people that tolerance of minorities is a virtue. And if that just drives their intolerance underground, that’s better than the Karens thinking it’s their God-given right to impose their will on others.

[Thryleon]

I think you're ignoring a fact here.

Trump panders to his strongest audience.  Those who will drive his election.

Theyre the antithesis to the same left agenda that is pushing some very hard agendas regarding society and they capture the moderate vote.  They lose that vote when they go too far and start behaving in a very fascist way.

Id be intrigued to see how this election pans out without the death of George Floyd.  To me that was likely the biggest turning point.  Black Lives Matter was as much anti Trump as it was anything else.

Very interesting stuff. 

[Mav]

The impact of BLM protests is a curly issue. The death of George Floyd may well have helped get out the vote in the black community. But the protests gave Trump a ready-made Law & Order appeal to white voters.

And then BLM protesters and progressives pushed the ‘Defund the Police’ slogan. I’d love to see “The Gruen” analyse that one. Taken literally, it meant that police forces would be disbanded. Maybe that’s what some extremists wanted, but most protesters meant that some money would be diverted from aggressive policing to crime prevention services. But how many white voters who would have voted Biden because they were turned off by Trump’s racism ended up voting for Trump out of fear that they might be victims of racial violence?

I reckon the biggest factor behind Trump’s loss was Covid. Perhaps voters punished his poor efforts to contain Covid although it seems he was mostly able to dodge responsibility for it. Among conservative voters, many were convinced it was a hoax and many thought Covid would have run rampant no matter who happened to be President. The more important consequence of Covid was that decades-long GOP voter-suppression strategies were rendered impotent. Early voting and mail-in voting were rapidly expanded and that made it easier for Democratic constituencies to vote. No wonder Trump was tearing his hair out over those changes. What he wanted was to force just about everybody to have to queue up on a working day, Tuesday, for hours. Of course, the lines in Republican areas would be short as there would be more voting centres open in those areas. But in Democratic areas, fewer centres would be open, fewer staff would be in attendance and for some reason broken machines would end up there. Lines would wend for miles, confronting voters with the waits of up to 10 hours in winter conditions.

What we can expect is that swing states with Republican Governors and legislatures will do their best to kill off early voting and mail-in voting in the next 4 years.

[LP]

The impact of BLM protests is a curly issue. The death of George Floyd may well have helped get out the vote in the black community. But the protests gave Trump a ready-made Law & Order appeal to white voters.

Yes, the general consensus seems to be the BLM reaction worked in Trumps favour, it put a lot of everyday people in fear including many African American small business owners.