Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

[Mav]

I suspect most of us feel the US Electoral process is a bit of a dog's breakfast.

One of the most concerning things in terms of stability is the gap between the vote count ending and the inauguration of the incoming President.
A 'wounded' Donald Trump is President for the rest of this month, all of December and most of January.
Normally it's a time for a tidy-up and preparing briefings for the incoming administration.
This isn't a normal President.

That is how the lame duck session has been used recently. But the original reason for it was to allow firstly the Electoral College and then Congress to assemble at a time when the horse was the fastest mode of transport. In a large country that was keen to expand, it was necessary to allow a lot of time for travel. Originally, Inauguration Day occurred in April!

The extended lame duck period is a relic of the past and should be ditched. If the Electoral College were abolished and the President were to be elected solely on the nationwide popular vote, the President could assume power on certification of results. If some period is required to allow the President Elect to put together a Cabinet, then it should be a small period with a clear caretaker policy enshrined in legislation.

Trump won’t be the first outgoing President to try to salt the fields out of vindictiveness. Trump shows it isn’t sensible to trust that outgoing Presidents will follow a tradition of promoting a smooth transition of power.

[Lods]

That is how the lame duck session has been used recently. But the original reason for it was to allow firstly the Electoral College and then Congress to assemble at a time when the horse was the fastest mode of transport. In a large country that was keen to expand, it was necessary to allow a lot of time for travel.

The extended lame duck period is a relic of the past and should be ditched. If the Electoral College were abolished and the President were to be elected solely on the nationwide popular vote, the President would assume power on certification of results.

I guess the problem with simply declaring it on a population vote is similar to the problem we face, and overcome with our electorates and then the PM being determined by the party that wins most of those.
A population only vote would be heavily weighted to the opinions of the folks in the big cities and big states.
We'd all wish "we could be California girls."

The US House and Senate offsets that to some extent and would give some representation to the rural areas but the Presidential race would largely depend on the big population areas.
We've seen it to a large extent in this election where a mass of Red in a state has been cancelled by a small patch of Blue in a major city.

The major problem seems to be that there is such a variation in State 'procedures' and 'rules' in terms of conducting the elections.
I'm also wondering about the level of two-party scrutineering, whether it existed and how that also varied from State to State.
If that was properly in place, Trump's dubious claims will quickly be shot down.

[LP]

Trump won’t be the first outgoing President to try to salt the fields out of vindictiveness. Trump shows it isn’t sensible to trust that outgoing Presidents will follow a tradition of promoting a smooth transition of power.

I've read elsewhere that the moment the election is certified, the keys to the nukes go immediately to Biden, as does command over the military and security intelligence organisations.

In this regard, if Trump fully runs off the rails it is not inconceivable he'll be frog marched out of the Whitehouse.

[Mav]

I believe that the Republicans and Democrats have had scrutineers in all vote counts. If they disagree with how a particular ballot will be treated, a neutral arbiter decides. Trump is just lying about secret vote counting. A lot of centres have cameras which enable outsiders to see what’s going on. I think Trump wants his good ‘ol boys to be “poll watchers” intimidating the electoral workers (perhaps while displaying firearms).

I don’t see why country voters should have greater say over the election of presidents than city-dwellers. In Australia, the Prime Minister is elected by the party with a majority of seats in the House of Reps. Each seat represents an electorate of the same population (as far as possible) as any other throughout the country. Country electorates can be many times the geographical size of inner-city electorates as a result. The Senate, on the other hand, gives Tasmanian voters more power than voters in Victoria.

[tonyo]

Trump won’t be the first outgoing President to try to salt the fields out of vindictiveness. Trump shows it isn’t sensible to trust that outgoing Presidents will follow a tradition of promoting a smooth transition of power.

I've got a feeling the Whitehouse shredding machines will be working overtime before we get to Inauguration day....

[Mav]

I've read elsewhere that the moment the election is certified, the keys to the nukes go immediately to Biden, as does command over the military and security intelligence organisations.

AFAIK, that’s not right. The outgoing President controls the White House and usually lives there until 20 Jan. The President Elect is certainly given the same briefings by the security agencies as the incumbent but is expected to stay out of foreign affairs for fear of inconsistent policies being pursued.

PS: IIRC, General Flynn is currently being prosecuted for lying to the FBI about phoning the Russian Ambassador about US foreign policy after Trump had already tapped him to be his National Security Adviser upon his inauguration. He wanted to deny it because he knew he shouldn’t have made the call.

Edit: https://www.businessinsider.com.au/micha...?r=US&IR=T.
The call was made in December following Obama kicking out Russian embassy staff in retaliation for election interference.

[capcom]

I've read elsewhere that the moment the election is certified, the keys to the nukes go immediately to Biden, as does command over the military and security intelligence organisations.

Until Jan 20th (assuming Trump loses) he remains commander in chief.  Only then does the baton pass

[LP]

Until Jan 20th (assuming Trump loses) he remains commander in chief.  Only then does the baton pass

That is not at all what I have heard at all.

btw., if it is actually deadlocked, and only if it is actually deadlocked, apparently it's hard coded in the constitution that at 1pm on the 6th of the Jan a choice is made by the VP casting his vote. But there is almost zero chance of that happening this year, but the GOP want to paint it as a possible to rally supporters. If they can rally enough support, Trump will call out the National Guard.

As I heard it explained if Biden is declared elected by the commission he immediately has the keys to the nukes and control of the military and intelligence services, no question about it. Any power remaining in Trump's hands is therefore limited. The laws were written when horse and carriage was the only means of transport, so the timelines and authorities can be deliberately blurred, but the military have no such issues to deal with, whoever is declared winner is the authority.

Trump is apparently using tactics only tried once before, in the late 1800s to invalidate the vote entirely and have the GOP State Governors choose and send their own Electors.

It seems the residency in the Whitehouse is somewhat decorative if you do not control the military. It's why they have zero fear of Trump going apecrap if he's declared a loser, he has no real power in the lame duck period.

[capcom]

LP?

According to the Presidential Succession Act of 1947, Trump would cease to be president on noon of Jan. 20 if Congress does not certify him as the winner, passing his authority as commander in chief of the military to the acting president, the speaker of the House of Representatives.

I'm not discussing hypotheticals of any in betweens, simply the Act.  Pretty clear

[Mav]

LP, Capcom is 100% right. I kind of said the same but less clearly than Capcom did. You can’t have 2 Commanders-in-Chief. Trump owns the Situation Room until 20/1. The Joint Chiefs of Staff report to him. Secretary of Defence Esper is his guy and loses his position only on Inuguration Day. Same is true for DNI Radcliffe and Secretary of State Pompeo. The Ambassadors are all Trump’s guys and gals. How could Biden hope to transact military and diplomatic business when he has no means of commanding the military or the diplomats? What’s he going to do with the nuclear codes when he only has a daily briefing and CNN to inform him about what’s going on in the world?