Round 17 Carlton vs Hawthorn-Post Match

[PassIt2Carrots]

Pagan was a realist who knew what it took to succeed and knew that Carlton didn't have it, he delisted 17 players after his first season and only Simon Fletcher, who subsequently played 8 games for Richmond, was picked up by another AFL club.

Fantastic story there mate. Did you make all that up yourself?

[flyboy77]

Barker showed - to my mind - that's he's not up to it on Friday night.

There was simply no point whatsoever reverting to the kick it backwards/sideways/retain possession at all costs mantra of yester month.

That must have been a coaching instruction?

Funny part is Hawks backiline is not big or quick - fast ball in and d Levi/Hendo/Kreuzer have a chance.....

Was Wood dropped? If so, another farcical decision.

I'd be giving young Foster a game ahead of Henderson. the latter looks and acts pathetically out there - maybe he has decided to move on....

everyone names the tutts, boekhursts etc  - they're not the problem - it's the senior/experienced crew doing jack - Murphy (stats galore but nil effect), Jamo (gone), Everitt (soft), Hendo (gone), Yarran (mentally missing).

If the young blokes see these guys being half assed, why should they bust the gut?

For mine, the biggest mistake in recent years (other than not fighting to keep Betts/Robbo/Jeff G.) was making Murphy Captain.

I'm sure he's a lovely fellow but a Captain he is not imo.

[Thryleon]

We may be arguing different things.
I totally agree that there are times when you have to point out individuals that have performed poorly....and make an example of them.
But it's not isolated disciplinary incidents that I'm talking about.

As a group that's exactly what's happened.
From the start of this season both the club and the coach have said to this playing list ...."You're not good enough as a group."
We're going to get rid of a large percentage of you...in fact we're going to turn the list on it's head.
In player selections they would have  a fair idea where they stand in this pecking order.

The players are hearing, and reading, that they're 'hopeless' on  a daily basis.
It's happened again today.
It'll be all over the footy shows tonight....and it's a line of thinking that the club is probably quite happy to let run because it takes the heat off those outside the playing group.
"Don't worry about results, we're rebuilding"......(means.... "This lot of deadbeats won't be around too much longer.")

Now there's a line of thinking that players should  "suck it up and go out and prove the club wrong by their efforts."
In my mind that's the stuff of fiction because players are individuals and each will respond differently.

It's actually some of those on the fringe that are putting in superior efforts.
They're playing as well as they can but because of skill deficits they're still marked for "demolition."
Many have become fearful of making errors and will hesitate and concentrate solely on their own opponent rather than supporting others.

Now a strong club administration, coaching panel and leadership group can help overcome such problems but we have none of those.

Hmm

we are and we are not arguing different points here and a mish mash.

The comments made by CEO Trigg and MLG have deflated this group more than anything our coaching or playing group have offered up.

Since then, the club as a whole, have put the queue in the rack from round screwing 2, and given up, costing us real chances at winning games, moreso than any lack of ability.

Destroyed by a lack of belief but not in themselves, but in each other.

Here is the kicker.  We can't even help them.  Our method of making things not functioning currently, function, is to replace it.  Its the only way we know.

We go out and get something else, because anything else is always something better.

Never mind there is always next year.

[ItsOurTime]

The comments made by CEO Trigg and MLG have deflated this group more than anything our coaching or playing group have offered up.

The coach consistently letting the entire world know the list is no good. Actually identifying individuals and comparing them to opponents and telling the world they come up short. Short changing the players in their development. Running a razor through the list at the end of each year. All good culture building stuff.

The CEO mentions a rebuild and that kills everything?

Further, the guy who took us off the bottom of the ladder is to blame for the work done in taking us back to the bottom in less than 50 games.

Your mind must be a wonderful place.

[PassIt2Carrots]

The comments made by CEO Trigg and MLG have deflated this group more than anything our coaching or playing group have offered up.

Hahahaha OMG in raptures! Some of your finest work there Thry. I'm tipping you never listened to one of Mick's press conferences ever? Because surely one person could not be that delusional? Then again.....

[PaulP]

Mav and cookie.

Mav, my intention was to show direct quotes from Parkin to reinforce what you were saying.

cookie, I agree with you.

I would also add that I believe the "younger=authoritarian, older=empowerment" model is probably simplistic. I think it should be done on a case by case basis, with each player being given a level of direction / empowerment that is appropriate for them, young or old.  With power comes responsibility, and the more responsibility you show, the more empowered you are allowed to be. I would also add that in general terms, the best model would be to try and find a "sweet spot" between a Barassi style dictatorship, and an Animal Farm tail-wags-the-dog setup. There is no substitute for being an astute judge of character.

[Thryleon]

Hahahaha OMG in raptures! Some of your finest work there Thry. I'm tipping you never listened to one of Mick's press conferences ever? Because surely one person could not be that delusional? Then again.....

We just had our worst loss in the clubs history and you think  I'm delusional?  Malthouse has been gone for months now.

I reckon you and your keyboard warrior mates are proving just how wrong they were about this group and it stings.

[PassIt2Carrots]

But back to the original comment you made.....

The comments made by CEO Trigg and MLG have deflated this group more than anything our coaching or playing group have offered up.

I'm tipping you never listened to one of Mick's press conferences ever? Because surely one person could not be that delusional?

Well, did you?

[Thryleon]

But back to the original comment you made.....

I'm tipping you never listened to one of Mick's press conferences ever? Because surely one person could not be that delusional?

Well, did you?

Tell us again about the premiership we would have won if Malthouse hadn't hurt our players feelings.

[ItsOurTime]

Tell us again about the premiership we would have won if Malthouse hadn't hurt our players feelings.

I can tell you how many spoons we would have won if he didn't give up.... Sadly we didn't believe a numpty like Barker could get that much improvement out our side.