Round 16 Pre Game Thread - Blues V Dockers

[Thryleon]

Well yes, culture can and does change simple things like kicking. A culture of excellence, accountability, team first values and so on, pressure any individual whose disposal is not up to scratch to work especially hard to achieve and reach excellence. A culture of excellence increases work rate, endeavour and discipline on the field. Off the field culture ensures that training etc addresses, effectively, any weakness in any individuals game along with a host of other team values.

The right culture will be intolerant of poor kicking (and any other skill that lets down the team) and will deal with the issue with some vigour and commitment. Culture aint no furphy.

This is effectively what I am saying.

Yeah you're right Thry, we should've kept Mick. )

You really don't understand what I am saying do you?  Fork Malthouse.  He is gone.  Hopefully he keeps slinging salvo's our way in the media, so the club finally can figure out it will deflect them better by maintaining a United front.  I am on the Barker train.  WOOF WOOF.

[DamonBlue]

Well yes, culture can and does change simple things like kicking. A culture of excellence, accountability, team first values and so on, pressure any individual whose disposal is not up to scratch to work especially hard to achieve and reach excellence. A culture of excellence increases work rate, endeavour and discipline on the field. Off the field culture ensures that training etc addresses, effectively, any weakness in any individuals game along with a host of other team values.

The right culture will be intolerant of poor kicking (and any other skill that lets down the team) and will deal with the issue with some vigour and commitment. Culture aint no furphy.

Baggers, I suppose I agree with that to some extent (though not about any weaknesses in any individual's game being addressed that way) but frankly, I'd be stunned if there were really that much of a difference in our 'culture', as you've described it, and that of many other clubs. In any case, and to be clearer, I don't think culture will make much difference all to the fundamental lack of disposal skills of the existing group. If 'culture' includes changing the group over to get players in with genuine skill, I'm all for it, but I think that goes beyond what most people think of culture. Semantics, perhaps.

[kruddler]

I think the whole 'culture' thing is a furphy, when it comes to football, at least in the sense of a 'winning' culture that 'refuses to accept' losing. Whether a player or a team wins or aims to win is not a matter of 'culture'. I don't think anyone would seriously suggest that winning is not the ultimate aim of everyone on our list, yet that has nothing to do with culture - its simply the nature of competitive sport. Further, we have to acknowledge that losing is, in fact, sometimes acceptable. This year for example, I think most of would agree that our losses under Barks have been in that category, at least to a greater extent than those earlier in the year. I think we need to allow that such acceptance might be ok within the team itself too. If culture plays a role, it must be about a whole lot of intangibles that equate to an environment of improving individuals and their relationships with each other - such things are so vague and difficult to define that they don't warrant discussion, IMHO. That seems to be what happened at Geelong, for example, but I couldn't say how they fostered it. But it isn't enough anyway, its a red herring. Culture can't change the simplest, most obvious failing we have - we can't kick. Honestly, 90% of the problem is that 90% of our players just can't.

Welcome and good post.

I can't say i agree with it all though.

Nobody is doubted the fact that we can't kick. Nobody is suggested that a good culture will solve that problem. These things are not connected.

We have a poor culture AND we have a poorly skilled list.
Fixing both is important to our success in the future.
Fixing only one, will still leave us struggling for success.

You say you don't know how to define and thus fix the culture....so its not worth discussing. Disagree. I think its a major problem with our club and it MUST be fixed. We should be doing and trying everything possible to fix it.

As we've all seen a change in coach led to a change in performance. Fleeting or otherwise is yet to be seen, but the initial change is obvious.
Why not apply the same logic to the board? Yes we have a new president, but he's not really new is he. He's just stepped up.

Culture changing needs to start at the top.

[ItsOurTime]

The biggest issue is the most significant leadership figure of our club for the past 3 years was a finger pointer, drank his own bath water and then gave up when things got too tough. That has trickled down into the playing group.

Which is why a tiny bit of positivity has made an enormous difference. The next guy will need a fair bit of charisma and patience.

[madbluboy]

What about the 10 years before that?

[cimm1979]

What about the 10 years before that?

Only interested in recent history.

[ItsOurTime]

What about the 10 years before that?

There's a lot to overcome. Half the list has only been around for a short time though. Could be bad or good.

[Baggers]

Meaty discussion this culture stuff.

Yes, right to point out as some have that 'culture' must get buy in from every section of the club, including the Board. Which means Board Members, yes you, need to up your game as well. If the players squabbled and got into factions on the field as you do behind closed doors, we'd be cactus for an eternity. Get on the same page, leave your egos in the car park... or FO and make way for someone who loves the club and not the sound of their own voice.

Looks to me that Trigg and Presidente understand this and are making positive moves to turn the good ship PP around and away from past mistakes and toward strategies that work in today's environment/realities. And thus far JB has also shown he's bought into this and is prepared to steer a vastly improved culture in his area of responsibility. But this will take time.

[cookie2]

[flash=200,200]https://www.youtube.com/v/Mr-IN9tpq8M[/flash]

That's the culture I like! Get out there and feckin' WIN!

Keep it simple............. Inspire me!

[DJC]

Meaty discussion this culture stuff.

Yes, right to point out as some have that 'culture' must get buy in from every section of the club, including the Board. Which means Board Members, yes you, need to up your game as well. If the players squabbled and got into factions on the field as you do behind closed doors, we'd be cactus for an eternity. Get on the same page, leave your egos in the car park... or FO and make way for someone who loves the club and not the sound of their own voice.

Looks to me that Trigg and Presidente understand this and are making positive moves to turn the good ship PP around and away from past mistakes and toward strategies that work in today's environment/realities. And thus far JB has also shown he's bought into this and is prepared to steer a vastly improved culture in his area of responsibility. But this will take time.

I don't want to turn this into another Malthouse discussion but I think Barker is focused on team success whereas Malthouse was more focused on himself.

Getting the playing group (and the Board, coaching staff, etc) to put team success first is essential if we are to be really competitive.