Round 16 Pre Game Thread - Blues V Dockers

[DJC]

Personally despise tanking. We've tried it in the past, and it hasn't worked. Melbourne has tried it, and it doesn't work. I've said it before, it's just a variation of the Messiah complex. Instead of waiting for gun trades to save us, instead of waiting successful coaches to save us, now we turn to elite pimply faced adolescents to save us.

We need to build a culture that despises losing, that despises giving less than 100% every game, that can really develop kids the way other clubs do. Into such a system, you then trade, draft, recruit players who have a framework in place, and something to actually aspire to. Not, "you're barely out of nappies, you need to save us."

Sorry, but that's my 2 bob's worth.

Absolutely!

No Carlton team should ever take the field without believing that they will win and doing their best to achieve that result.  Anything less will lead to a culture where losing is acceptable or even the norm.

[ItsOurTime]

I don't believe in this winning culture stuff. That only happens when people see results. A bunch of guys who are getting thumped each week will not have their fortunes changed just by someone selling snake oil. Worse, it builds a fragile culture, where losing is the only thing driving performance. What happens when you drop 5 games? You either need a super charismatic leader who will convince the group everything will be okay or you're where we found ourselves in the early 2000s.

We need a culture whereplayers are looking to improve - always, year to year, game to game, quarter to quarter no matter what is happening on thescoreboardd because you will lose.

[Thryleon]

I don't believe in this winning culture stuff. That only happens when people see results. A bunch of guys who are getting thumped each week will not have their fortunes changed just by someone selling snake oil. Worse, it builds a fragile culture, where losing is the only thing driving performance. What happens when you drop 5 games? You either need a super charismatic leader who will convince the group everything will be okay or you're where we found ourselves in the early 2000s.

We need a culture whereplayers are looking to improve - always, year to year, game to game, quarter to quarter no matter what is happening on thescoreboardd because you will lose.

Effectively, the culture to improve is driven by the idea of a winning culture is what people are saying.

The goal is to win.  How do we achieve it, hopefully is to improve.  Not just as an individual but as a whole.

Oh, wait.  Thats not our footy club.  Our club's culture is replace what doesnt work till you find something that does...


:-\

[PassIt2Carrots]

Yeah you're right Thry, we should've kept Mick. )

[ElwoodBlues1]

West Coast had a drug culture..didnt stop them winning premierships, Collingwood had a ratpack culture and it didnt stop them winning premierships either....I'm not saying to emulate those clubs but it comes down to winning games and to do that you need about 30-35 good footballers on your list and dont expect every player to be of the choir boy variety either.
Coaches turn a blind eye too as long as the 4 points are on the board each week......so dont tell me culture is coach driven all the time either....

[PaulP]

West Coast had a drug culture..didnt stop them winning premierships, Collingwood had a ratpack culture and it didnt stop them winning premierships either....I'm not saying to emulate those clubs but it comes down to winning games and to do that you need about 30-35 good footballers on your list and dont expect every player to be of the choir boy variety either.
Coaches turn a blind eye too as long as the 4 points are on the board each week......so dont tell me culture is coach driven all the time either....

There are limits of course, and so long as those limits are understood and strictly adhered to, , then I agree.

[mina1]

culture with this group has won us 3 games,we should use 2015 to lay foundations of the new successful culture by recruiting the right players.(hope our rec department get it done), lets finish 2 last and begin the rebuild .

[DamonBlue]

I think the whole 'culture' thing is a furphy, when it comes to football, at least in the sense of a 'winning' culture that 'refuses to accept' losing. Whether a player or a team wins or aims to win is not a matter of 'culture'. I don't think anyone would seriously suggest that winning is not the ultimate aim of everyone on our list, yet that has nothing to do with culture - its simply the nature of competitive sport. Further, we have to acknowledge that losing is, in fact, sometimes acceptable. This year for example, I think most of would agree that our losses under Barks have been in that category, at least to a greater extent than those earlier in the year. I think we need to allow that such acceptance might be ok within the team itself too. If culture plays a role, it must be about a whole lot of intangibles that equate to an environment of improving individuals and their relationships with each other - such things are so vague and difficult to define that they don't warrant discussion, IMHO. That seems to be what happened at Geelong, for example, but I couldn't say how they fostered it. But it isn't enough anyway, its a red herring. Culture can't change the simplest, most obvious failing we have - we can't kick. Honestly, 90% of the problem is that 90% of our players just can't.

[Baggers]

Well yes, culture can and does change simple things like kicking. A culture of excellence, accountability, team first values and so on, pressure any individual whose disposal is not up to scratch to work especially hard to achieve and reach excellence. A culture of excellence increases work rate, endeavour and discipline on the field. Off the field culture ensures that training etc addresses, effectively, any weakness in any individuals game along with a host of other team values.

The right culture will be intolerant of poor kicking (and any other skill that lets down the team) and will deal with the issue with some vigour and commitment. Culture aint no furphy.

[PassIt2Carrots]

Welcome Damon and great first post!