Harry and Megan

[PaulP]

Clarkson is only made relevant by your posts, his abhorrent rhetoric should not be used to excuse Markle's actions, actions that are clearly contrary to her words.

They aren't so much victim as they are instigator...................................................................

Right, so because in your eyes she's hypocritical, therefore she deserves :
a. a punishment,
b. the punishment specified by Clarkson.

In other words, as I said earlier, "b1tch had it coming."

Great work LP.

[madbluboy]

Charlie and Will really brought out the big guns with Clarkson.

[LP]

Right, so because in your eyes she's hypocritical, therefore she deserves :
a. a punishment,
b. the punishment specified by Clarkson.

In other words, as I said earlier, "b1tch had it coming."

Great work LP.

No they are your words [member=64]PaulP[/member] I've never made such an assertion.

But I'm not going to swallow the spin that Markle is some sort of universal victim.

There is no morality in actions if they are motivated by cash, they don't deliver a key to heaven!

Clarkson / Markle, they are opposite sides of the same coin, and they are working the same crowd. One works the pity angle, the other casts the first stone, but which is which?

We could rewrite this post, as a template as follows;

No they are your words, I've never made such an assertion.

But I'm not going to swallow the spin that ________ is some sort of universal victim.

There is no morality in actions if they are motivated by cash, they don't deliver a key to heaven!

________ / ________, they are opposite sides of the same coin, and they are working the same crowd. One works the pity angle, the other casts the first stone, but which is which?

Insert whatever names you like in just about any order;

Clarkson / Markle
Depp / Heard
Packer / Carey
Pitt / Jolie
Pitt / Aniston

Pretty much anywhere this sort of public media war is declared, altruism is the victim and profit rules.

Most of the public anger and disgust, might well be emotions erupting at the thought of being gamed!

[PaulP]

What an appalling ideology. What we have according to this view is a flat undifferentiated field created by and governed by the market forces of capitalism. There are no longer victims and perpetrators, no longer the powerful exploiting the weaker, no longer any need for ethics. Merely a level playing field of identical units,  who are either cynical opportunists or shameless hucksters  where victim hood is simply another marketing opportunity.  One step away from believing that Grace Tame and Brittany Higgins should be grateful to their abusers for making them famous. 

Markle has done nothing,  I mean literally nothing,  to deserve those comments, and no amount of spin from you is going to change that.  The comments are awful,  and they need be condemned as such, without excuses and without  qualification.

[Gointocarlton]

Markle has done nothing,  I mean literally nothing,  to deserve those comments, and no amount of spin from you is going to change that.  The comments are awful,  and they need be condemned as such, without excuses and without  qualification.

She has done plenty Pauly, she fell in love with a Prince, married him and became popular and nice. How dare she.

[LP]

Merely a level playing field of identical units,  who are either cynical opportunists or shameless hucksters  where victim hood is simply another marketing opportunity. 

More often than it's comfortable for many to admit, as sad as that may be.

Often the first person engaged is a manager, ............ then a lawyer.

And in this regard the CheatsFC analogy is perfectly valid.

The rage is driven by the media, today News Ltd and Consolidated are running stories stating Markle was right about "The Media", "The Media" referred to in the 3rd party by News Ltd and Consolidated. Of course they do, .............. they are you ............. they are us!

[Lods]

One step away from believing that Grace Tame and Brittany Higgins should be grateful to their abusers for making them famous. 

This kind of highlights one of the issues with the discussion of this topic Paul.

Folks will often accept or reject an allegation as fact based on their own values and personal perceptions of the individuals.

In the case of Brittany Higgins it remains an allegation.
A jury who had listened to all the evidence had failed to come to a decision before the trial was eventually aborted.
That won't stop people believing what they want to believe.
I have no idea what happened in Parliament House.
The jury in the case couldn't be convinced either way at the point the trial was terminated.

Harry and Meghan have made some allegations.
In a similar fashon to the Higgins case the accused have chosen not to respond.
Into the void folks, from the outside, will put their own values, perceptions and life experiences to determine which side  to favour.

[Baggers]

She has done plenty Pauly, she fell in love with a Prince, married him and became popular and nice. How dare she.

Terrific summary, GTC. You reminded us of what is truly important here - love (at the risk of seeming sentimental). On one very real level this is simply a love story. True love. Courageous love. And the petty jealousies and sinister reporting from loud, obnoxious and breathtakingly shallow (yet infuriatingly influential) sections of the community and media.

Love wins. And the likes of Clarkson, Rita, Andrew, Piers and other sections of the media etc., get to baste in their bile, whilst Harry & Meghan get to raise their family in LA and continue their meaningful philanthropic work. A life together of their own creation and choosing. Bravo.

[PaulP]

This kind of highlights one of the issues with the discussion of this topic Paul.

Folks will often accept or reject an allegation as fact based on their own values and personal perceptions of the individuals.

In the case of Brittany Higgins it remains an allegation.
A jury who had listened to all the evidence had failed to come to a decision before the trial was eventually aborted.
That won't stop people believing what they want to believe.
I have no idea what happened in Parliament House.
The jury in the case couldn't be convinced either way at the point the trial was terminated.

Harry and Meghan have made some allegations.
In a similar fashon to the Higgins case the accused have chosen not to respond.
Into the void folks, from the outside, will put their own values, perceptions and life experiences to determine which side  to favour.

No doubt, but that way of thinking in the public sphere works to undermine victims.  Tame and Higgins are smart educated women. They make these allegations fully aware, either through briefing or through self knowledge, that any "rewards" they receive in making such allegations will be dwarfed by years and years of stress, vitriol, character assassination and the like. And they are prepared to endure all that in order to sell a few books, or appear on the telly for their 15 minutes of fame, when a conviction for the offender is far from a certainty ? Somehow I doubt it. The fact that the jury failed to reach a decision in the Higgins case tells you nothing about what really happened.

[PaulP]

More often than it's comfortable for many to admit, as sad as that may be.

Often the first person engaged is a manager, ............ then a lawyer..........................

Wow. By that logic there must be scores of women out there who are secretly or overtly hoping something horrible happens to them so they can hit the big time. Maybe they already have a manager, a PR person and a book deal stitched up. Appalling.