Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 7: Carlton vs. North Melbourne

[Blue Moon]

Interesting post Thryleon, Murphy and Thomas make up just over one third of the games played. North average is 110 games which is the zone you should be in if you are trying to win a premiership.
The other point that needs to be made is that our team has had three interstate trips in the first three rounds and while non-Victorian clubs face this challenge every year, they at least get to play other teams who have had to travel every second week. We have played three Melbourne based sides.
Finally the main point I wish to make is that not turning up to play like Carlton did on Sunday is simply not acceptable. This has been going on at the Club for too long now. Players picked chose when they were going to play for Brittain, the picked and chose for Pagen, they picked and chose for Ratten and they picked and chose for Malthouse. They have been better under Bolton but this was the second time they didn't turn up to play. We need players who when things aren't going well for them they are willing to take the game on and try and change their circumstances. That is a mind set and that is culture, it is not hoping but doing.
A young side having a go for six weeks, not getting a fair reward, running into a mature aged side needing to make a statement was always going to be hard however, if Carlton had stood North up in those first 15 minutes, I believe North would have faded away. Sometimes you just need to be tougher mentally than your opponents.

[WASurfer]

Reference to Shawny comment earlier about footskills. I made a similar post a few weeks ago after some dreadful turnovers and asked the question, do we have even one bloke on our list with what you would call "elite foot skills"? I think the answer to that is obvious....NONE! I find it staggering that we can identify midfielders and draft them with very high picks while acknowledging that they're not "elite" with their disposal....yet! Dow at pick 3 and O'Brien at pick 10 regularly butcher the footy.

I've also raised this point in posts last year as well and earlier this year and question whether Bolton is the coach to take this young group forward? Clubs like Geelong etc seem to be able to bring young kids into the side and develop them quickly. Would someone like Marchbank or SPS still be floundering in their 3rd and 4th years?

As for Plowman, the guy is a spud with terrible decision making and poor skills by foot on a regular basis. Unfortunately with Newman and Simpson out, he gets a game by default. I doubt Stocker and Williamson would've both played had one of Simpson and Newman been available.

No disrespect to North as they came ready to play obviously but they were bottom of the ladder and were copping a lot of heat in the media. You don't need to be Einstein to work out that they were going to come out ferocious in that first quarter and surely a coaching panel would've had our players fired up and ready for it? Yet we didn't fire a shot and the game was over. It was one of those Carlton results where 10 minutes into the first quarter you just knew we were going to get flogged....and all the reasonably good work of the first 6 weeks goes out the window. And over the last few years there's just been far too many of "those" games.

A 100 point demolition from Collingwood this week is on the cards and if that happens, it's hard to see how Bolton can keep his job. It's hard to make a case for him given we've gone backwards in the last two years.

[Baggers]

Interesting exercise.  Total games experience.


Carlton


B

    Tom Williamson (16), Liam Jones (119), Lachie Plowman (80)

HB

    Marc Murphy (256), Jacob Weitering (63), Dale Thomas (245)

C

    Zac Fisher (41), Patrick Cripps (88), Lochie O'Brien (23)

HF

    Charlie Curnow (51), Jack Silvagni (46), Ed Curnow (150)

F

    Sam Petrevski-Seton (49), Harry McKay (22), Michael Gibbons (7)

Fol

    Andrew Phillips  (39), Liam Stocker (1), David Cuningham (19)

I/C

    Paddy Dow (27), Sam Walsh (7), Caleb Marchbank (40), Levi Casboult (109)


Total Games experience:  1498





North Melbourne

B

    Jamie Macmillan (146), Robbie Tarrant (133), Jasper Pittard (133)

HB

    Marley Williams (106), Scott D. Thompson (228), Shaun Atley (183)

C

    Trent Dumont (67), Shaun Higgins (209), Jared Polec (113)

HF

    Tarryn Thomas (5), Taylor Garner (35), Jack Ziebell (195)

F

    Kayne Turner  (65), Ben Brown (106), Nick Larkey (4)

Fol

    Todd Goldstein (219), Ben Cunnington (194), Jed Anderson (50)

I/C

    Jy Simpkin (41), Sam Wright (135), Mason Wood (44), Cameron Zurhaar (13)

Total Games Experience:  2424 games.

What is remarkable is how experienced their defense and midfield were vs ours.

Had very little influence on the outcome of the game. When it comes to finding excuses for poor performances our files have every known justification known to humankind and beyond!

As was reported by one of the boundary riders in the media who was at the game, he said you could see the fire in the belly in the Kangaby players, it was palpable, and as soon as they hit our blokes we 'backed away'. Dawks applied heat in the 3rd qtr and we 'backed away'... and so the story goes. That's who we are and who we have been for a long time.

Our problems are solely above the shoulders.

[ElwoodBlues1]

It seems this year that the bottom team ain't what it used to be.  Competition is more level than ever, and if you turn up without being switched on, you will get smashed.

I have a Richmond mate who reminded me of this little beauty he witnessed - Round 16, 2017

ST KILDA          5.3        14.8      19.8      21.12
RICHMOND        1.3        1.4        4.9      10.11

Familiar looking scoreline?  The Tigers only lost one game after that and creamed everyone to win the flag.  Not saying that is what we will do, but sometimes a flogging can be the pressure point that creates a diamond.

Time for some in Navy Blue to stop looking like talented kids and get a bit serious about how the game is approached.

Take your point on how things turn but Tigers were a bit different in that they were not 4 from 38 going into that game....previous years had them 13th, 5th, 8th, 5th, so for three years in a row they played finals before dropping to 13th.....we have been 18th, 16th, 14th, 18th going backwards.

[Thryleon]

Had very little influence on the outcome of the game. When it comes to finding excuses for poor performances our files have every known justification known to humankind and beyond!

As was reported by one of the boundary riders in the media who was at the game, he said you could see the fire in the belly in the Kangaby players, it was palpable, and as soon as they hit our blokes we 'backed away'. Dawks applied heat in the 3rd qtr and we 'backed away'... and so the story goes. That's who we are and who we have been for a long time.

Our problems are solely above the shoulders.

Yes and no.  The average North player has done over 5 years of pre seasons and is in their prime.  They should  be spanking a side of kids like we fielded on sunday and they did.

Ours have done less than 3 on average, and we had a lot of inexperience, and blokes who are battling through working out whether or  not we belong.  We have lost a couple simply carrying blokes like O brien who arent even AFL standard yet and have played more games than they should have.  Add Stocker who made his debut, and anyone thinking that we should have won was kidding themselves.

They did exactly what they should be doing every week.

We did the sort of footy that a team like the one we fielded did.

Look, I get it, it wasnt good enough for the level of talent in the team, but we are asking blokes to play 4 or 5 years ahead of their years, and they just arent capable of it.  Your frustration isnt  at the coach, it isnt at the players, its at the footy club for taking a really long strategy and perhaps deluding you into a false sense of where you think we should be at.

The sooner you accept that, the better off you will be. 

[Gointocarlton]

Agree with most of this GTC, however you left out one premiership coach who is available ATM, [b]Paul Roos.

I forgot to add one pre requisite, No Paul Roos. I dont like him, he hates Carlton and I dont think his heart is in it. I dont think he would agree to my pre requisite number 1 where he would need to work with our list strategy already in place.

[WASurfer]

If I've got my numbers correct, Bolton has coached us in 76 games and won 17 of them. That's a winning ratio of just over 22%. If we win say another 4 games for the season, that will still be his winning ratio after 4 years at the helm. Will the Board stick with him again in 2020?

[Gointocarlton]

If I've got my numbers correct, Bolton has coached us in 76 games and won 17 of them. That's a winning ratio of just over 22%. If we win say another 4 games for the season, that will still be his winning ratio after 4 years at the helm. Will the Board stick with him again in 2020?

Probably yes because when you look at history, successful teams have stuck with their coaches for much longer during their formative years they didnt start from the low base Bolts has. I would rather follow the lead of successful club than repeat our retched recent history. Having said that, I doubt very much the powers that be will say "Bolts is good bloke, lets stick with him". Similarly, they wont say "4 wins from 39 starts, lets sack him". Somewhere in between all that, they will have KPIs set up for him which consider a multitude of factors and its those KPIs that will determine his future.

[laj]

Probably yes because when you look at history, successful teams have stuck with their coaches for much longer during their formative years they didnt start from the low base Bolts has. I would rather follow the lead of successful club than repeat our retched recent history. Having said that, I doubt very much the powers that be will say "Bolts is good bloke, lets stick with him". Similarly, they wont say "4 wins from 39 starts, lets sack him". Somewhere in between all that, they will have KPIs set up for him which consider a multitude of factors and its those KPIs that will determine his future.

They don't have a 4 from 39 record 4th year in either. Dogs swapped in similar circumstances and won a flag.

[kruddler]

If I've got my numbers correct, Bolton has coached us in 76 games and won 17 of them. That's a winning ratio of just over 22%. If we win say another 4 games for the season, that will still be his winning ratio after 4 years at the helm. Will the Board stick with him again in 2020?

If the board look at what we did in our first season under Bolton to decipher if its worth keeping him in 2020, then the board should go.

Its not about where we were. Its about where we are (likely) going.

We took a hit early, we've turned over a full list worth of players in the time Bolton has been at the club. It takes time for that list to work out
1. What is required under Bolton
2. What their teammates can and can't do
3. What is their role within the team.

Now, the first part should come relatively quickly.
The second part is ever changing and will grow more and more the more times they play together.
The third part would be everchanging up to this point given how much the list has been turned over.

eg. Weitering. Defender.....forward(?)....defender....swingman....defender! All that has happened in 4 years. Only now are we starting to see him get settled and belong.
Even an experienced veteran like daisy has been moved to all corners of the ground not only during his time at the club, but during the course of a year, and even during a game. Hard to get settled that way.

The players need to play together.