Reset Rants

[capcom]

With Waite, look at the way North have handled him.  We didn't

[Robblues]

With Waite, look at the way North have handled him.  We didn't

Spot on Capcom , there was another thread here a while back re our quality of medical management, we all complain about him missing games , yes dissappointing , but maybe our lack of detail here was showing

[laj]

How did you think we were going to go in 2015 after bringing in Liam Jones, Waite left on free agent, and our other prized recruit Kristian Jaksch played one game and looked not even half as good as McKay??

Jaksch had some ability but just didn't work hard on his training and fitness. Generally a bad attitude. Anyone else who played as well at both ends of the ground in the VFL and kicks as many goals as he did would've been straight in. He was never in due to a poor attitude and eventually sacked. His fault.

[Thryleon]

Yep.

Those replacements looked pretty good to a lot of people 4 years ago.
I would have done most of those swaps...at the time!

Laidler was playing playing fairly average football for us but a few thought he was hard done by.while he had some support not many were very upset by him going.
For me it wasn't a great loss
Robinson and Garlett had proven to be undisciplined and were regarded as just good average players at best.
...and Waite was either injured or suspended.

Of the incoming all were sold as having the ability to offer something, except perhaps Tutt.
As it turned out we were disappointed.

Hindsight is a terrific thing

Robbo- http://www.carltonsc.com/index.php?topic=1537.0
Garlett- http://www.carltonsc.com/index.php?topic=1622.0
Waite- http://www.carltonsc.com/index.php?topic=1225.0
Laidler- http://www.carltonsc.com/index.php?topic=402.0

Now plenty of doubters in this lot but also quite a few pointing out positive aspects...

Whiley- http://www.carltonsc.com/index.php?topic=1641.0
Boekhorst- http://www.carltonsc.com/index.php?topic=1728.0
Jones- http://www.carltonsc.com/index.php?topic=1601.0
Jaksch- http://www.carltonsc.com/index.php?topic=1554.0


So at the time it was pretty much like for like with our wins and losses....but with hindsight maybe not :

...and folks have been using the term 'rebuild' since 2002 on this forum.
and Sheik had most of the first group on his 'sacked' or 'cracked' list

My point being was, that we were not bullish about our future then.

Look how much has to go right:

MK develops into a good ruckman
Murphy has a great year
Thomas gets over his injury and returns to form
Waite gets on the park and isn't past it
Judd isn't broken
Garlett plays well without Betts
Robinson clicks under MM
Watson goes from a twos player to holding down a key post
Gibbs and Yarran pull their fingers out
Carrots gets on the park and the game hasn;t gone past him.
Curnow continues to be an good tagger

Too many question marks all over the ground for this year. Maybe it clicks in 2015 but it would be looking ominous for those guys.

Read this post.  Have a look at the caveats ItsOurTime made about our list back then.

Read that thread.  Note the month of discussion.  January, 2014.  Our great white hopes back then, were 24 year old blokes kicking on and becoming stars of the competition, not the kids developing into 4 quarter players.

[Lods]

The point of difference is that we've gone a "stripping back and youth" approach as opposed to what we've done in the past

We're arguing  with this approach we'll be back playing finals in  a couple of years after 5-6 years out of the eight....and hopefully seeing a sustained period of success.
I'd suggest there is a good chance we'd be there anyway through the natural rotation of clubs...without the pain

After all we did 'rebuild' it in an  entirely different way in the period 2002 to 2009  and stayed in the finals for 4 out of the next 5 years despite an absolute off-field turmoil.

If many of the things IOT mentioned had gone right instead of wrong in the years following we might still be there, and even progressing....but we've had disasters with coaches, injuries to key personnel, loss of players and lack of development.

My issue has always been with this 'absolute certainty' that things will work out through the current 'different' approach.
We don't know that.
We can hope.
...and we should also be free to comment about aspects of the rebuild that concerns us.

[Thryleon]

The point of difference is that we've gone a "stripping back and youth" approach as opposed to what we've done in the past

We're arguing  with this approach we'll be back playing finals in  a couple of years after 5-6 years out of the eight....and hopefully seeing a sustained period of success.
I'd suggest there is a good chance we'd be there anyway through the natural rotation of clubs...without the pain

After all we did 'rebuild' it in an  entirely different way in the period 2002 to 2009  and stayed in the finals for 4 out of the next 5 years despite an absolute off-field turmoil.

If many of the things IOT mentioned had gone right instead of wrong in the years following we might still be there, and even progressing....but we've had disasters with coaches, injuries to key personnel, loss of players and lack of development.

My issue has always been with this 'absolute certainty' that things will work out through the current 'different' approach.
We don't know that.
We can hope.
...and we should also be free to comment about aspects of the rebuild that concerns us.

Absolutely, and I support that 100%.

The thing is, I wasn't bullish in what we did at the time, it seemed "ok".  I actually like the way we are going about things, even if it doesnt work, and if we had our time over again, probably wouldnt do anything differently.

I am a bit dissapointed in this season thus far, but I personally think that it wasn't likely to be much better had things gone well, AND, I also think that a lot has gone wrong this season.

The future for me is a fairly certain, uncertainty is the best way to describe it.  For the first time since David Parkin left us, there has been a real focus on what we do, and how we do it, and we have also been fairly considered regarding what we have done.  that is not true of any of what we have done.  I think perhaps we should move this conversation to the reset thread, where it pretty much has  come back to discussing effectively.

[Lods]

Absolutely, and I support that 100%.

The thing is, I wasn't bullish in what we did at the time, it seemed "ok".  I actually like the way we are going about things, even if it doesnt work, and if we had our time over again, probably wouldnt do anything differently.

I am a bit dissapointed in this season thus far, but I personally think that it wasn't likely to be much better had things gone well, AND, I also think that a lot has gone wrong this season.

The future for me is a fairly certain, uncertainty is the best way to describe it.  For the first time since David Parkin left us, there has been a real focus on what we do, and how we do it, and we have also been fairly considered regarding what we have done.  that is not true of any of what we have done.  I think perhaps we should move this conversation to the reset thread, where it pretty much has  come back to discussing effectively.

Good point.
I'll split the thread and send them into the "reset".
I don't really disagree with anything you've said there.
Things are being done differently.
We're not going to change short term.
We cant reverse the process now, it's gone too far
.....lets see how it works out.

If Liddle is to be believed the focus now switches anyway.... to a group of talented mid-aged players.