VFL Finals Week 2: Carlton vs Brisbane

[kruddler]

Cahill has already been in the system hasn't he, struggled to develop an AFL level tank?

FWIW, as much as I love to watch Crocker and hate to say it, the same applies.

Believe me, I would like nothing more than AFL to be a footballers game, but it's further from that now than it has ever been and the way it is heading it's never going back!

Same could be said about Jack Silvagni when you do all the AFL testing.

However, throw a ball in front of him and all that testing goes out the window.
Crocker is a footballer, not an athlete. Sure his numbers might not stack up against some 18yo kid coming through with his repeat sprints and agility levels etc. Put a football out there and see how little those numbers matter.

Was the same with Cripps. I said at the time that after seeing his first 3 minute highlight video that he was a footballer who could play and i wanted him.
Bombers laughed when we got him.
Numbers mean squat when there is a football in front of him.

Draft by vision, effort and performance, not by numbers on a stopwatch.

[LP]

Same could be said about Jack Silvagni when you do all the AFL testing.

However, throw a ball in front of him and all that testing goes out the window.

So we'll have a team full of them, let's go!

We already struggle just fitting in one or two!

You and I spent a lot of last season discussing the various for or against of various players who chase or won't, either because they refuse or because they simply can't. Let's not ignore that history of debate just to pose an argument for or against some favourite.

Half of the game is chasing, catching and stopping, it's not just about what you can do when you already have the footy, it's also about getting the footy or getting it back.

[Thryleon]

Everyone wants a mid sized creative player who knows where the goals are and takes a high mark.

Someone like Mitch McGovern maybe? We put him back this season, but he goes well up forward and I'd be interested in see him take the 3rd forward role. 

[kruddler]

Half of the game is chasing, catching and stopping, it's not just about what you can do when you already have the footy, it's also about getting the footy or getting it back.

Ultimately the game is about kicking it through the big sticks more than the opposition.

If player A kicks a goal for every 5 touches he gets and might miss 1 tackle through lack of chasing.
and
Player B kicks a goal for every 10 possessions he gets and gets an extra tackle through chasing.

Who are we better off having?

Even if that tackle leads to a free kick (keep in mind 'tackles = free kicks' is almost laughable in the modern game) then they still need to translate that into a goal to break even.

[blueianh]

So much for the Stocker fans - what do we know?

[ElwoodBlues1]

We must resign Stocker he is hard at it ,never shirks a contest, flies the flag when teammates are roughed up and knows how to get his own ball. Kicking needs tidying up but the rest of what he brings is something we don’t have a lot of. Toughness.

Tommy, If they are hard at , dont shirk contests and fly the flag then they dont usually last long at the modern Carlton.....we quickly weed them out and get rid of them before they have time to infect the other players.
We prefer the softer gentle Von Trapp types...there was this bloke called Mitch Robinson, terrible individual...wouldnt shirk contests, always flew the flag, dragged the whole team down with his tough attack on the ball and constant habit of tackling opposition hard so he had to go. Liams best hope is to play VFL for the Bulldogs and hope for redemption......

[LP]

Tommy, If they are hard at , dont shirk contests and fly the flag then they dont usually last long at the modern Carlton.....we quickly weed them out and get rid of them before they have time to infect the other players.
We prefer the softer gentle Von Trapp types...there was this bloke called Mitch Robinson, terrible individual...wouldnt shirk contests, always flew the flag, dragged the whole team down with his tough attack on the ball and constant habit of tackling opposition hard so he had to go. Liams best hope is to play VFL for the Bulldogs and hope for redemption......

Not sure Stocker will play anywhere at the top level again.

But I always get a little smile when you refer to the Von Trapp mindset, I see it as a play safe work safe attitude, like our club seems to conduct itself in the war of AFL as if it was commanded by officers qualified in OH&S. Tread lightly, hurt no-one, be at peace, live in harmony!

[DJC]

Tommy, If they are hard at , dont shirk contests and fly the flag then they dont usually last long at the modern Carlton.....we quickly weed them out and get rid of them before they have time to infect the other players.
We prefer the softer gentle Von Trapp types...there was this bloke called Mitch Robinson, terrible individual...wouldnt shirk contests, always flew the flag, dragged the whole team down with his tough attack on the ball and constant habit of tackling opposition hard so he had to go. Liams best hope is to play VFL for the Bulldogs and hope for redemption......

Do you really think that coaches, who played as hard as Voss and Hamill did, want soft, gentle players?

Stocker wasn’t delisted because he has tattoos and delivers a mean hip and shoulder.  He was delisted because he wasn’t able to replicate his VFL form at AFL level.

[pinot]

Do you really think that coaches, who played as hard as Voss and Hamill did, want soft, gentle players?

Stocker wasn’t delisted because he has tattoos and delivers a mean hip and shoulder.  He was delisted because he wasn’t able to replicate his VFL form at AFL level.

Rather debateable considering he played 17 very good games last year.

[ElwoodBlues1]

Do you really think that coaches, who played as hard as Voss and Hamill did, want soft, gentle players?

Stocker wasn’t delisted because he has tattoos and delivers a mean hip and shoulder.  He was delisted because he wasn’t able to replicate his VFL form at AFL level.

Voss screwed up the Brisbane list with bumbling list management and what did Hamill do at the Saints to make them a remarkably successful team?,  its not like we have a plethora of overly physical players either and Stocker was a breath of fresh air in that regard.
Josh Honey was rewarded with another season and he has hardly replicated his VFL form in the seniors so it must be different criteria he was booted for IMO....maybe more personal reasons.