Football Department Review

[WASurfer]

Slightly offside but probably one reason why neither Bolton or Teague have been helped....interesting article in The West over here today about our recruiting/drafting from 2010-2014....so in the 4 or 5 years leading up to the rebuild and the mega draft of 2015. I can't remember the exact numbers but something like 34 or 35 players drafted and only two left on the list....Cripps and Curnow. It made comparisons with the more successful teams and how many players those clubs still have on their lists from those years.

Reference was made to how many of those players would/should be around the 200+ game mark now. I know the draft isn't an exact science and every club has had their disasters....but to only have 2 players left from those 4/5 years of drafting is an incredibly poor result and certainly wouldn't have helped the club over the last 4-5 years.

[cookie2]

Slightly offside but probably one reason why neither Bolton or Teague have been helped....interesting article in The West over here today about our recruiting/drafting from 2010-2014....so in the 4 or 5 years leading up to the rebuild and the mega draft of 2015. I can't remember the exact numbers but something like 34 or 35 players drafted and only two left on the list....Cripps and Curnow. It made comparisons with the more successful teams and how many players those clubs still have on their lists from those years.

Reference was made to how many of those players would/should be around the 200+ game mark now. I know the draft isn't an exact science and every club has had their disasters....but to only have 2 players left from those 4/5 years of drafting is an incredibly poor result and certainly wouldn't have helped the club over the last 4-5 years.

So back to the age old question Surfie, was it poor drafting, poor development or both? This review had better find the answers otherwise who knows where it will all end up?

[Thryleon]

Slightly offside but probably one reason why neither Bolton or Teague have been helped....interesting article in The West over here today about our recruiting/drafting from 2010-2014....so in the 4 or 5 years leading up to the rebuild and the mega draft of 2015. I can't remember the exact numbers but something like 34 or 35 players drafted and only two left on the list....Cripps and Curnow. It made comparisons with the more successful teams and how many players those clubs still have on their lists from those years.

Reference was made to how many of those players would/should be around the 200+ game mark now. I know the draft isn't an exact science and every club has had their disasters....but to only have 2 players left from those 4/5 years of drafting is an incredibly poor result and certainly wouldn't have helped the club over the last 4-5 years.

Yep its not surprising for a Carlton supporter to see.

This is probably why we went for the Lachie Plowman, Caleb Marchbank, Adam Saad, Zac Williams, Jack Martin, Matt Kennedy group of players to help bridge that gap of experienced older heads.

We have a decent future ahead of us.  I think our middle period of players recruited is still hurting us, and that we are likely to have a better future for it.

What I find most interesting is the layer of players we have recruited that really have had a taste and are on what looks to be slower heat.

Just for those who are a bit miffed at the lack of older players, I think we can fill those gaps now, knowing we have a few to come through that could be anything (or nothing):

Carroll
Durdin
Ramsay
Philp
Honey
Kemp

These guys are all a relative unkown quantity at AFL level so will be interesting to see what happens moving forward.

Add guys like Boyd and Mirkov, we have an interesting layer of youngster coming through.  We probably need a bit more class in through the draft, and depending on whom ends up on the outer at the end of this season, but we could improve really quickly if any of these guys have the requisite ability to come on and show something quickly at AFL level.

Guys like O'Brien, Dow, SPS, Setterfield, Ed Curnow, Murphy, Casboult are probably all varying degrees of not moving us forward, but we could conceivably have a fair turnover and not cause too much top end damage to our list which means improvement is not far away (hopefully). 

Its really important we dont get emotional and dump some of the aforementioned too soon.  I wouldnt be moving on SPS, Dow or Setters in a hurry unless they too want to go because Curnow, Murphy and Casboults days are all numbered.

[cookie2]

@ Thry

Agree, top notch list management will be vital, how good are we though? “Feeling lucky ?” to paraphrase Dirty Harry.

[WASurfer]

Cookie....if I had the answers I guess it'd be me doing the review!!!

On top of those kids we drafted in that period, we've topped up with blokes from other clubs who were also pretty high draft picks....some of whom Thryleon alluded to. Includes Plowman, Marchbank, Setterfield and Kennedy from GWS. Of those, Plowman has probably been the best...which would surprise most. Marchbank has played 48 games in 7 seasons of footy and doesn't seem able to stay out there. Kennedy probably saved his spot with that game last week....and Setterfield is in and out of the team as well.

Add to those the Martin/McGovern trades and it makes for ordinary reading across the board. And that doesn't take into account the high end draft picks from about 2016 onwards who are all in and out of the team and who have question marks on them....Dow, O'Brien, SPS etc.

That's a lot of questionable decisions spread over the best part of a decade.

[PaulP]

I'd bet London to a brick that most, if not all of SPS, Dow, O'Brien etc. would be flying at the better clubs, instead of languishing in CFC limbo. For every Weitering, Walsh, McKay etc. there are way too many fails to be ignored IMO.

[ElwoodBlues1]

I'll say it again but too many small bodied Von trapp kids who are outside types, we dont have enough players with size and power around the ball. Its Cripps and Walsh vs the opposition and clubs have worked Cripps out and are now turning their attention to Walsh and will be working him over every week. The defense is unbalanced with two many rebounders who wont defend and the forward line is solely dependent on Harry kicking 4-5 each game for us to win and that aint going to happen vs the decent teams who have 2-3 big defenders.
The reason why Petracca and Bont are such a handful is the size and power, you add other strong types around them with decent rucks and you have 60-70% of the battle won. Cripps is a comparable player ball winning wise but doesnt hurt enough with his possessions and isnt the threat down forward like the other two.
Its down to the recruiting IMO and not the coach......development has played a part but good players like Walsh, TDK, Weitering, Harry come through anyway because they are very good players. Development is in the main down to making your joe average player better not your elite draftees who already have the skill level and nous.
Dow is a classic example....good size, pace but shite skills...so he is a remedial case in need of development and was never a classic No 3 pick who had all the boxes ticked.
If we are picking players in the top ten they have to tick every box, not some but every box......that draft was thin on players
who did tick every box.

[LoveNavy]

If Teague can coach at AFL level, why haven't we seen evidence of it.

I keep harping on about it but poor team selection, playing blokes out of position, persevering with a game plan that doesn't work (at least with the players we put on the park), poor preparation (in terms of matchups, tactics etc) and inability to change things during games aren't characteristics of someone who can coach.

All teams are affected by COVID so that's not really a factor but, yes, Teague has only been in the job for a little over two years.  Of course, Nicks, Rutten, Longmuir, Noble and Ratten haven't been in their jobs quite as long and, with the exception of Noble, all have their teams performing a little better than us.  They may not have the same level of expectation placed upon them, but Teague represents a radical departure from what the club told us it was doing and, so far, we're not seeing what the change was supposed to bring.

I think that it would be wrong for the club to sack yet another coach, particularly after only two years.  It would also be wrong to let things continue as they are and not bring in the best assistants to give Teague the chance to show that he can coach.

There's a fine review of our football department. Send your invoice to the auditor ?

[LoveNavy]

I'd bet London to a brick that most, if not all of SPS, Dow, O'Brien etc. would be flying at the better clubs, instead of languishing in CFC limbo. For every Weitering, Walsh, McKay etc. there are way too many fails to be ignored IMO.

Related, many criticized the "get games into them" method we adopted across those few years. Many warned "they need strong bodies/leaders around them"
That, IMO wasn't achieved. Add the bad luck (?) with injuries and our coach merry go round, and we have a recipe for stagnation or even rotting.

FWIW I think our list is in much better shape than pre rebuild. I believe we can progress markedly without radical change. A big part of this process IMO is having the (best 22+) boys play together repeatedly.

[PaulP]

Related, many criticized the "get games into them" method we adopted across those few years. Many warned "they need strong bodies/leaders around them"
That, IMO wasn't achieved. Add the bad luck (?) with injuries and our coach merry go round, and we have a recipe for stagnation or even rotting.

FWIW I think our list is in much better shape than pre rebuild. I believe we can progress markedly without radical change. A big part of this process IMO is having the (best 22+) boys play together repeatedly.

For mine, it feels often like one step forward, two steps back. If there was an award for shooting yourself in the foot, we'd win easily. It's not even things like game plan - e.g Teague telling porkies about Cripps, then having to fess up, recruiting a bloke to be a mid, then deciding he can't actually be a mid etc. These are the sorts of things that cause doubt, and the first word that enters my mind is "amateurish." And that's not a word I think we need around the club.